New Era. We are wanting change
 

I have watched and raced NHRA racing for most of my life. What is going on and the way that NHRA treat Stock and Super Stcock and other sportsman classes is unacceptable. The more we take it and do what they want the more they will continue. NHRA is the pinnacle of drag racing and we all want to win a Wally. For a lot of us it’s a dream but they know this and I feel like they take advantage of us, such examples: limited car counts, limited class racing, entry fees higher for certain races and schedules that cater to pros instead of caring about the sportsman and they way we feel. My idea is, we have 4 reps, 2 from Super Stock and 2 from Stock We send a letter of concerns to NHRA that we would like to see changed. If they don’t negotiate or make changes, then we need to stand together and not support their program. The only way they will change is, us as a group stand together. Individuals calling NHRA or division directors with their concerns is not working. The 4 reps appointed can talk and negotiate changes with NHRA. I want NHRA to be successful and survive. But at this rate they are killing sportsman class racing. I am willing to be a rep for Super Stock and I’ve had many volunteers to be reps. Many people out there have the passion as I do for class racing and feel like you guys understand where I’m coming from. I feel like we are getting no where with individuals reaching out to NHRA. We need to stand together and show NHRA we will support them if they will support us! Please respond with your in put!

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

I'm assuming you're referring to national events, correct? Because aren't the car counts unlimited at a division or regional?

And are you suggesting all national events go an extra day to accommodate the extra round or 2 in each category? Because if stock and ss are going to get an extra round so should everybody else right?

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

The problem here is a lot of Sportsman racers don't understand the "Pecking Order" in other words WE ARE NOT THE SHOW. We are field fillers/time killers.
The majority of "Hot Dog Eaters" come to see JOHN FORCE.
Hell you can get a Wally at a Bracket Race now.
I go to 3 or 4 nationals a year because I enjoy the show
I go to 8 "grade points races" a year so I can go to the show next year.

Flame Away

Chip Johnson

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

I agree with you Matt, the problem is we had a chance this year to support 3 big money races and the turn out was not so great in my eyes. This was a time to send a message and support our class, all it showed is that 60 percent of the class racers are chasing the Wally and enjoy the camping out atmosphere. Bo's race couldn't draw the cars with the payouts he put up, so my take is people are happy. My Divisional races are the only thing that keep me in it. Time to enjoy being a camper or get a boat, I'm leaning towards the boat.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Like they treat the pros any better! I would love to see a breakdown of what the NHRAs take is for a national event by class, if there's a thread with such info please post a link.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

JMO - and I freely admit I am a newbie to all of this. But, I think Chip hit the nail on the head. At national events, we are time killers between the pro rounds, nothing more. I would love to win a national event Wally some day, just like everyone else here, but the chances of that happening are pretty slim for me. There are just too many good drivers out there. So, for me, the divisional and regional races are where I have my fun, along with the local bracket races and test and tunes. I just love running the car down the track and hanging out with all the great folks I've met along the way. If I go a few rounds, that is great. If not, there's always tomorrow. Everyone sees it differently. That said, I am willing to support a group effort to get a bit more respect from the NHRA folks, if enough of us think it is really necessary.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Wasn't this "representative" thing tried already a few years ago? I'd be all for it if I thought it would amount to something but unfortunately I don't. NHRA is just like big government, the elites at the top live in a bubble and expect the commoners to conform.
I personally would LOVE to see more big money S/SS races and even more "normal" payout races. It's all the same people and if I have learned one thing from not racing all these years it is that we miss the people more than a damn Wally. I'm very much looking forward to racing again next spring and I really hope we have a venue to do it. Good luck with your idea though, I hope it helps.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

We had the SRA (Sportsman Racers Association) and we supposedly have reps appointed for each of the divisions that advise NHRA on issues, neither one of these groups have had any luck (and for the record, I'm sure they tried their hardest). If anyone thinks that we are going to successfully boycott sanctioned races, good luck with that. Even if you could coral all off the racers, I think it would give NHRA the wish that they have always been hoping for. There are unlimited ways that NHRA could fill in the time void that would be left behind, lots of circus acts available to entertain the hot dog eaters. Jim Caughlin SS6019

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

I would think with the changes coming by auto manufacturers in switching to E power in the next 15 years or so, that racers, hot rodders etc would need sanctioning bodies as allies. Its hard to imagine support for this hobby/business/sport to continue without them. I don`t see empathy coming from elected officials, just the opposite. Racers are going to need all the friends they can get.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Our biggest issue right now is the EPA. They are steadily trying to make the modifications that we do illegal. A better move for us would be to get behind SEMA/PRI and the RPM Act.

As far as the NHRA goes, I think a lot of people have tunnel vision. There is a lot going on in this Great Country that makes it extremely hard to do "business as usual".

If there was ever a time to support the NHRA, it is NOW.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

It sure isn't NHRA's fault we have been dealing with covid restrictions for the last two years. We are still dealing with this terrible stuff. Either people can't or don't want to work. Money is short for most killing fan count. Gas prices, food, Hotels all costing more.
Then again Pros aren't coming to support their fields. Surely aren't any alcohol vehicles and competition Eliminator class cars anymore. Even Top Sportsman has lost its luster. You would think the folks in charge would adjust the category counts for national events for the classes that do support them.
I do enjoy divisional races. We have great weather in division 7. But yet we have had only 1 race so far. We have lost or are losing numerous tracks. Tough on the moral.
As far as big dollar S/SS races. They are all back east taking the place where IHRA was. Division 1,2 and 3. I guess racing and buying parts stops at the Mississippi.

Paul 7019 C/SA

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

To be honest, I could care less about National event and for that matter, spectators. Divisional races to me are lot more enjoyable and less hassle. As sportsmen racers are the primary function of a Divisional, we get treated accordingly and not as an annoyance like we are at Nationals. How much fun is it to make your first run at zero dark thirty, and your second run at nine that evening (and then have that run cancelled at the last minute because a pro car oiled the track)? Doing the math, it seems like Divisional races are self supporting whether spectators turns up or not so hopefully, those races can continue for some time to come. I have no love for the way NHRA treats up but better the devil you know...

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Chip this is by no means to Flame Away, I agree with what you have said but we ( Sportsman Cars) are the greatest traveling car show on earth. Who in NHRA is responsible for promoting Sportsman Racing ? Is there even a budget for it? We have the greatest membership and pay the majority of the membership fee's. Shouldn't we have someone paid that promotes our racing !! It's like making a great product with no sales force. If no knows about it or see's and understands what the product is you will never sell it. One simple way to promote us would be to have an event the night or two before the start of the race with about 50 cars off the grounds. Most of the malls have plenty of room with shopping switched to online. And would welcome anything they could do to attract more cars into their parking lots . Give away some FREE PASSES to the race. I have a cruise night once a month and my place is a hole in the wall and we get a lot of people that go by to stop in and check out the cars. Even with all the years I've been at this there are cars that show up at races that I'm in awe about. There is a cruise night a few Towns from me. They get upwards of 400 cars a week. But they also get upwards of over a thousand people to show up to check the cars out. There are plenty of other ways to promote our classes. All it would take is an organization that cared enough to actually put some effort in. AND PLEASE I don't want to here it won't work. I'm 65 and have had several successful small businesses and everyone I've had was either someone else's that was failing or failed and closed. Everyone that I have had others said I was nuts and it won't work. Barry

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Chip I’m glad you enjoy hot dogs and watch John Force. But for most of us I feel like agree with what I’m saying. NHRA system is broken and keeps taken advantage of us. We need to stand together whether you run divisional or national events. Change is needed. If NHRA don’t listen or don’t want to change then that’s the line in the sand. This Indy schedule is a joke this year because of All Stars Why are we having the All Star race in Indy Have it at Topeka or somewhere in the middle of the US. Makes more sense to me. This is some of the changes they need to look at. One race a year is what we are asking for class and to be open. Our pole showed people want it open and be able to run as fast as they can but NHRA keeps it like all other races. WHY And it’s killing car count. I also own a business and the negative people will always try to bring you down. But to be successful you power on. And that’s the way we should look at this Like I said if they don’t. You take what they give you or quit doing it. It’s simple. Thanks for reading Matt

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Since the day NHRA changed Stock/Super Stock from heads up class racing to mostly bracket racing it has been on decline. Sorry, I only watch class eliminations. No interest in the bracket portion. And It is a numbers game, NHRA tracks how many Crew Tickets are bought by each racer for national events. I bet most stock racers only by racer entry. Top sportsman/Dragster all have at least 1 crew person, same with comp. That is what pays the bills and top sportsman/dragster and comp get dumped on the same way, 1 qualifier and get ready to race

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Herbie is correct...250 cars showed up to Baby Gators to chase the "little man" not the $1200 to win the race, meanwhile Mr. Freeman was giving $10,000.00 one hour away and couldn't get 2 dozen cars to show up! 250 cars showed up at Columbus a couple weeks ago to chase down the "little man" again and that was with a week of forecasted rain surrounding the race! LOL

More STK and SS cars have shown up to the 2 NHRA Class Runoff Races than Mr. Freeman's, Butner/Line, Bohannon and CR Numidia races put together....and those were for a total of $170,000.00+!!! I know there is a large amount of support for these races and perhaps they will grow over time; however it will take time and it will probably become a sink or swim situation for some.

Don't get me wrong, winning big money is great but I am sure that the majority of us do not race to subsidize and/or add onto our annual incomes...seeing as only a handful of sportsman racers have ever legitimately raced full time as a means of employment.

The racers have spoken and all the majority of us have shown, is that we want more class runoff racing like before...and we do not need JFR or DSR on the property to make it feel anymore special. With the low quotas at National Events, division races are a better venue for class so we can actually have cars to runoff against and not end up with a 23 car auto-combo race! Put all class runoffs to divisional events like the Baby Gators(1 per division) + the Sports Nationals in Columbus and Indy...that is all most of us would ask for. IMHO

PS: When Class at Indy is done Herbie, I will be boat shopping with you!!! LOL

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

matt1234....your points are well taken...but..you cant fight city hall,,,they dont care...PEACE.....Joe Zoom

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

For you sir, who I do not know I offer this prayer,

God grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

If you want change ,STOP GOING ITS SIMPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Find other races and associations there are plenty.

It can change, you just have to really want to change it.

If no one shows up ,they'll have to seriously do something or they will fold!


Or pay $195 a time run, getting treated like crap, and just complain and talk about it for the rest of your life! :)

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

They will not Fold!


They will simple replace you with some different classes.


They may even be saying to them selves it took longer than it sure have to get those whiners out of here.


Remember to NHRA you are just filler at Nation events. The place you do have some power is divisional races.The question is can you use that to get some changes at National events.



Stan

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

...

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Whiners lol?? I actually did something about it!

What car do you race STANLEY???


Is it ELECTRIC???

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

It has been a while since my last passes down the 1/4 mile.


But yes it was with EFI. :D



Stan

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

pfffff, hopefully it had catalytic converters on it, so you didn't pollute the air.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

I don't think so, Stanley
Who are they going to replace us with?
Where are they going to get 4-500 racers that will go to divisionals for 3-4 day to win a mere pittance, compared to the entry? Multiply that by 7-8 times for the privilege of getting abused at Nat'ls.
Divisionals have NO spectator gate, so that whole scam would fold.

Bracket racers know better. We lost that crowd decades ago.

We damn sure know they won't replace you with Import racing.

The ball is in your court.. I doubt anybody at NHRA has the promotional skills to replace you with anybody.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Mark,
I was talking about National Events. But don't let that get in your way. I know how you like to spin things.



Stan

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

I knew that.
You don't think NHRA will give up the Div. deal readily, do you? You don't think they're going to let bracket cars in off the street to replace S/SS and the .90's at Nat'ls do you?
You don't think guys will still go to 8-9 Div's and then boycott Nationals, do you?

I know how you like go off topic to avoid answering the question.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Mark,
While others have talked about a boycott of National events. Please quote one of my posts where I said a boycott of any event is what should be done.

Stan

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

In the event of an attempted boycott of Natl Events, who would they replace us with?
Street Outlaws, Pinks (with that creepy announcer guy), 275Xcars, 10.5 tire guys, 8.5 tire guys, outlaw Pro Stock, nostalgia Pro Stock, nostalgia Super Stock (don't have to do any of the annoying tech stuff), nostalgia Top Fuel, nostalgia just about anything, wheel standers, jet cars, circus animals, clown, people with those tshirt guns, people making balloon animals, bikini contests, should I go on?

Secondly, there are enough people who want to win a Natl Event, they would say they were going to boycott and then show up anyway to try to sneak out an easy win. Don't even talk about boycotts, not going to happen and NHRA is just hoping for it to happen. Remember how successful the Modified Elim protest at Indy turned out?

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

I remember how the muffler deal went in Gainesville. It was successful I think.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Jim, None that you mentioned would pay the entry fees i.e. the cash cow , that we do.. Minimum 60 times 4 categories x (help me here) $350? x 240 = 84 K, TS and TD, 21K = 105 K loss
. Now , N/PS types would race for free probably, but won't pay like we do.

The second part, I agree with you on. Ain't gonna happen.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

My point is ...Easier said than done...Ain't gonna happen.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

If Stock and SuperStock never showed up to another race the SUPER/GAS/COMP/STREET cars would be more than enough to fill in the void.

If you want a challenge then sportsman bracket races have plenty of good racers. Heck, in 1st round last year of the Sunmet et nationals the Current National Champ in Stock eliminator "Jody Lang" went out 1st round.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Mark, not disagreeing with you, more of a philosophical debate as this has been hashed on for decades. Things are what they are, you either accept it and race or buy a fishing boat. For now, I am opting for racing.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

For years rumor's have swirled that sportsman classes (sometimes just the .90's, or just Stock/Super Stock or all sportsman) could be eliminated from national events. When someone mentioned they could replace us (speaking of Stock/Super Stock) I decided to drill down and try to obtain tangible data.

In 2019 (pre-covid data) there were a total of 2215 stock/super stock entries at national events. This totaled $480050 entry fees plus $265800 in insurance surcharges for a grand total of $745850. This is not accounting for gold/silver card or transfers. That info is not easily obtained.

There are only 4 sportsman classes that competed at all 24 national events-Stock, Super Stock, Super Gas, Super Comp. How would they fill the space if they eliminated Stock and Super Stock?

As an exercise I looked at the sportsman classes not contested at all 24 events. I determined the average number of entries for the events where the class was contested. Then I added that to the events were events were not contested. For example if there were 160 entries over 16 races I ASSUMED there would be 240 entries over 24 races. If NHRA decided to eliminate Stock and Super Stock and let Comp, Top Dragster, Top Sportsman, Super Street, Factory Stock, TAD, TAFC, pro mod and Factory Stock race at the events where they are not currently contested they would pull in $555230 in entry fees, $314580 in insurance surcharges for a grand total of $869810.

You may be wondering, wouldn't the above assumptions lead to a lot more entries? The answer is no. Based on the assumptions above, 2209 entries were added. This is 6 less than Stock/Super Stock in 2019.

To be very clear I hope this never happens. I appreciate all the sportsman classes...which is one reason I enjoy divisionals. This exercise made it brutally clear that if NHRA decides to make one group divisional only, they have options to make the money up. And really, do they need to make the money back up? We are part of an organization that pulls in almost $100 million annually. Also, they were the ones that started quota's.

The organization is far from perfect but I'm most concerned about electric cars. We have seen the Mustang and Camaro and Tony Stewart making passes. It's clear to me that the organization sees this as at least part of the future.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Racing Dust Busters sounds almost as exciting as not doing it.

Drag racing is not the only motorsports discipline that my wife and I are interested in- when we were on the Isle Of Man for the TT races, the electric motorcycles were by far the least exciting class.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

If you want further insight into where sportsman racer rate with NHRA, read the article in the most recent Natl Dragster, it was captioned 70 reasons why drag racing is great. Not one of those reasons apparently have anything to do with sportsman racing. Maybe we were number 71 and didn't quite make the cut? Oh wait, they did mention junior dragsters, my bad. You may remember this is the publication that recently said they were going to put more emphasis on the sportsman classes.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

You need to read the article on the Ford site that Tony Stewart wrote about racing the CJ electric car. According to him (an expert on drag racing), the only difference that he noticed was that the electric version did not torque over during acceleration. Considering that the electric motor was attached to a conventional automatic transmission with a driveshaft and rearend, I'm pretty sure the reminder of the chassis was not aware of where the power came from. To make matters worse, no one at Ford was technically aware of the way that the car was constructed to catch the error in his comments and let the press release go out as is. Also, to avoid embarasement, they didn't report the ET's. Not to say it isn't fast but maybe they should put Jeff Lane who knows how to drive it in the car for the exhibition runs.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

i like it when people with 250 to 500k racing operations complain about entry fees and payouts. I've seen some of yall's motorhomes lol.

Re: New Era. We are wanting change
 

Hey! First World problems are real too! :D