New FWD weight breaks!
 

Why???????????????

http://www.nhraracer.com/Files/Tech/...0-1-2021_b.pdf

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Removing 200lbs out of a small car seems pretty hard and ridiculous to do. Then you lose a 1/2 a second of index going from CF/S to BF/S for just 200lbs. Something don't add up in my math. I don't watch those classes. Did they add EF/S or something?

Paul Haszlauer

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

BF: 16.00 to 17.49 18.99
CF: 17.50 to 18.99 19.00 to 21.99
DF: 19.00 to 22.00 to 24.99

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

They SHOULD have added a class or two between B and E!!!

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

I wish NHRA would buck up and explain why this change was made.. this will effectively force one of the nicest dudes on the West Coast to retire unfortunately..

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Ya know, I've had more than one NHRA "Higher Up" ask me what they can do to make this stuff more affordable. I built a car that I need like I need another hole in my head to try and prove a point as to how affordable a FWD combo can be and how simple it can be to do. They should have added a couple of classes.
Other than the Tech people who are on the ground at a local level, there is no one in the NHRA that knows or cares what it is that we do. Just ignorant!

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Omg !! The damage is done !! No more “rent a wrecks “ in stock !!

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

First, a VERRRRY belated welcome to the ranks of us (to borrow from the Marines), the few, the proud, THE FWD STOCKER RACERS! I've been rooting for you with it even more-so than with your previous cars.....it being a Cavalier is pretty cool too!

Billy, I'm wondering why myself....especially if there's no other changes? Moreover, I wonder if DF/S is going to continue to allow V6's (like they do now)? I look forward to hearing an explanation about this, because (I.M.N.S.H.O.), changes should be made to increase (not decrease), the number of FWD stockers in the country!

Since this is happening, I wonder if the indexes are going to reflect this change as well. It's interesting that it only affects BF/S-EF/S and not AF/S or AAF/S????

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

I wonder about the "or something", because EF/S has been here for years. BIll, Stan, Brent, and Rob, amongst 1-2 others run that class. I agree with you also the math analysis.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Sorry Billy for sure. I just took a few minutes to look at Gary Hampton's combo .If I'm correct Gary you are rated at 125hp and did weight 2545lbs minimum in DF/S. Now you have to weight 2920lbs in DF/S. You need two friends to ride along with now to add 375lbs. But yet Bill O'Conner's slow roller Horizon didn't get effected one bit. Why would they basically kill some combinations.
Like you say Billy they need to add more classes. Which we probably have too many already. That or completely change all the hp ratings fairly on these cars and put these cars in T,U,V and W. That might be a crazy huge stretch but just thinking out loud. that or add X. Y and Z and let any amount of cylinders run in any class. Another senior moment.

Paul Haszlauer

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Now I see what they did. Instead of adding a class, they shifted the weight breaks to close up the gap between the old D & E ......E stays the same.
Billy, You'll probably have to run in C (the old D)
Gary runs C , but the same index.
They just need a new index for the new D

OLD breaks:

AAF/S 11.00 lbs/hp 13.50 13.50 8.54 8.54
AF/S 13.00 lbs/hp 13.85 13.85 8.74 8.74
BF/S 16.00 lbs/hp 14.65 14.65 9.17 9.17
CF/S 17.50 lbs/hp 15.15 15.15 9.45 9.45
DF/S 19.00 lbs/hp 15.60 15.60 9.86 9.86
EF/S 25.00 lbs/hp 17.45 17.45 10.82 10.82


Am I missing something ?

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

If I understand you correctly Mark, the new CF/S will have the old (current) DF/S index of 15.60? If that's the case, then changing four letters on "Shark Bait" (plus my class designation here), will be fine by me, and probably Billy's car as well.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

It seems to me that every time I turn around they are adding more SS and Comp classes. I tend to agree with the "too many classes already" deal but if THAT'S the issue then why do we still have separate auto and stick classes?
Adding 1 or even 2 FWD classes isn't going to hurt or change anything in the running of the eliminator.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Mark, that's how I see it also. Just have to get a new Index for DF/S. Have to wait and see what it is going to be.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

If the FWD racers are out of the loop with this decision, what prompted it and a statement SHOULD be forthcoming.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Hey NHRA, if you're reading this,what needs to be done is to leave the class breaks as they are except to add a 22 lb. class between D and E..

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Billy is HOT!

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

I had asked Lonnie Grim a question thru email in August, and was very surprised that he answered me quickly. Not only that, but when he said "I assure you" he was true to it.

An email to Lonnie may get these questions answered, or sent to the direction to someone who can.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Yup, RED Hot.
What these weight changes do in a nutshell is let Kopejtka and Seibenik competitively (which they should be able to do) run in 2 classes while making Hampton's car and mine into one- class cars. Fair tradeoff?
Make a 22 lb. class!

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

To add to this point - what was wrong with the old weight breaks from ~20 years ago? A through H, though I can't remember what the breaks were. That's only 3 more classes now. It seems there were a lot more FWD cars back then compared to now, there sure haven't been an abundance of new heads-up FWD elimination rounds, and all the single cars run in the class combo anyway?

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

New FWD weight classes
AF/S 13.00 to 15.99 13.85 Index
BF/S 16.00 to 18.99 14.65 Index
CF/S 19.00 to 21.99 15.60 Index
DF/S 22.00 to 24.99 too be determined
EF/S 25.00 or more 17.45
That is what I think it is.
Just tightened up the spread between the old 19 and 25 lbs.
instead of adding any new classes.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Maybe chevy/ford/ or mopar is going to build a frontwheel drive factory stock car copo style ?

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Omg !! Bubski says your funniest ever !! The COPO’s n the like have sold maybe 1or 2 cars to the motoring public!! Bubski wishes that a time machine was built to get few more Shelby FWD chargers before the scrap man got them !! Bubski gotta go n fit 459 intakes to his 5* + included angle stocker heads !!

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

As far as I can recall, Chevy's closest copo style car was the Supercharged Cobalt from the late 2000's, and Dodge countered with their Neon SRT-4. I am kind of surprised no-one made one of them into a Stock Eliminator car (they're part of the reason AAF/S was created), but I wouldn't even consider doing it, because they only came with 5spds, and I think it's easier to be consistent with an automatic. It would be nice to have a stocker that could be closer to the V8's, but I like my Turbo 125 too much to pass up for one of those.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Our stock ecotec dirt Cavalier would run faster lap times than the V8 hobby stock cars. Weight was the reason. What is the weight penalty for running stick verses and auto in the fwd classes? Tom

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Dear Sir,
Look closer at the Cobalt SS supercharged 2007 NHRA specs or even better, go to the classracerinfo website. You will find that the LSJ engine option with automatic transmission is accepted.
I had a chance to work on blower engine a couple of year before and after a lot of reseach on this car, I can tell you that the're a lot, a lot of potential with this particuliar set-up for a AAF/S car...
Keep on,
Charles Stewart

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

I have a 2008 Chevy Cobalt sports sedan with 2.4L I have been debating for months what to do with it, I think it would be a fun budget build Billy & Mark have given me some advice, still on the fence.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Bubski,not sure what you run other than your mouth!! I have an A,B and C car and I believe these cars belong in stock just as much as mine. I personally would not run one but I'm sure some of those competitors would have no interest in running mine. You could actually buy these cars from a Dealer compared to some that are running in stock today.

I watched Billy take out some heavy hitters with his car this year and I'm impressed.
It would be nice to see you use your real name and say something positive on here. BP

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Gary, where do you draw this conclusion from, with what's currently out there?

Maybe you're talking about 12 second cars. I wouldn't run one either..stick or auto.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

They make power for sure. When I ran the shop building off road/Baja engines, we built a few and was impressed with the power you can achieve.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

I'm glad the 2007 allows an automatic with it, because the 2005 version is 5spd manual only, and that's what I looked at.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Your former Monte Carlo, Billy's Cavalier (and mine), Ron's Tempo, Billy Owens' Grand Am, Bill O'connor's Omni, and the Charger & Aries cars of Brent and Stan Kopejtka, have been the most round winning cars this century, against the nowadays harder to beat muscle cars with automatics.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Mr. GarysZ24,
Actually, you are not that wrong with your point.
At this time, I was not able to find any production specs, production number or production option that show a real LSJ 2007 SS S/C equipped with an automatic transmission.
Keep on,
Charles Stewart

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

I watch a lot of race results online and I'm just not seeing this, except for Billy, and yourself when you went on a tear last year.
The Monte was great when we had it.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Brent Kopetjka went on a tear last year (2020) too and finished #3 in D5 in stock with his FWD car.

I'm still on the fence about turning my 2005 Cobalt into a stocker for fun...

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Ellis I hope you will, and I'll be rooting for you too!

Mark, take note of the recent Vegas doubleheader, as Bill O'Connor made the final round of the 1st one.

As good as my year ended, I would've liked to have been in Brent's position both divisionally, and especially for the Allstars, where finished higher than my 6th place effort.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Of course.I watched it. Without the incrementals in front of me, I'm not going to try to analyze every round ..But as you and I and Bill know , there's a lot of other factors involved besides dead consistency.
I told Billy he needed to put a stick in that car a long time ago ;-)

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

I hope you take their advice (given both have proven for many years that they're amongst the sharpest tools in the shed so to speak-I wish Billy was an Arizonan that's for sure, as he was helpful to my car 2-3yrs ago. Marks Monte Carlo gave me the mindset to take the space-saver wheels and put front runners on them, which was also what helped my car get to where it was last year, and be more competitive now), and go for it. I'd sure like to see or read about your car out here with us, so I hope you'll get going and do it!

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

I'd rather Billy put an 8" torque converter in it with a shift improver kit (if he hasn't already). It didn't take him long to go from -.2 under to -.4 under.....I knew he could do it, which is why I wish Billy lived out west here so I could invest in some of his obvious know-how! Stick shifts are good for low-qualifier, but I think automatics are better for consistency.

Re: New FWD weight breaks!
 

Actually I was talking about Bill O'Conner's car..Shouldn't have called him Billy .Everybody knows who Billy is :-0
I almost went the Ecotec /stick route myself..They are everywhere.. Then I found the Escort , thankfully..I really didn't want to go that fast in the eliminator ;-)

We're going in circles now ..Still want to see the evidence that automatic FWD's are more consistent.