New AHFS
 

So, who's going to test the new system first?

Re: New AHFS
 

Re: New AHFS
 

You do it. I'll watch.

Re: New AHFS
 

It looks like we will never see "mineshaft" again. Obviously, this is a drastic change. I can't see where it doesn't penalize hard work.

Someone from the NHRA needs to explain how this won't have the opposite effect on the data base.

These are performance based classes, where's the incentive to go fast? Lonnie??

South Georgia will be interesting.....

Re: New AHFS
 

There are different ways to make changes, positive ways that reward people with incentive and then there are the NHRA ways. I could see this as part of a solution in concert with more rewards for performance, but NHRA execs chose only the punitive side. Unfortunately, it appears that the bean counters still rule NHRA. No racer input needed.

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"Data collected through the NHRA Live timing data base (including 660 foot elapsed time and 1000 foot elapsed time comparisons) will be utilized to verify if adjustments are needed".

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Since the inception of the Stock and Super Stock classes, the classes have been always considered a performance class. I believe that in the old Farmer and subsequent days, although not perfect, the adjustment system was fair.

How about heads-up runs? The current rule does not exempt heads-ups runs. The only exception is as follows: "No runs made during exempt events, National Opens, test and tune, time trials, 1/8th mile events or races within a race (i.e. Jegs Allstar eliminations, Stock / Super Stock Combos or other races that are not part of a season long points championship) are included in any review."

My hope is that this new rule does not create a hazard due to top end accidents when fast guys slam on their brakes trying to slow down their cars!

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As they are planning to watch the incrementals, I can't see that as an option.

Whoever wrote these changes obviously didn't do their homework!

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NMCA is the place to be, granted it doesn’t help the racers out west.

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Indy will be mineshaft. After that doubtful

Re: New AHFS
 

Why is NMCA the place to be?

They use an NHRA rulebook correct? Or do they have there own Stock/SuperStock rule book? what do they do to adjust indexes? And how does their system work better than the NHRA system? I've been hearing people post on here and Facebook for a while that we should dump NHRA and make the switch, but other than me seeing maybe 20 or 30 cars in a qualifying sheet not really sure of the parody or differences that make them much better.

Re: New AHFS
 

This year #42 was .948 under......

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They do not use any factoring system and there are no penalties for going fast. They use NHRA rules and IHRA indexes but no punishment for being fast.

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And the previous 5 years ?

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Everyone on this site knows there are some disparities in HP factoring in stock and super stock. There are some soft combos that people have been protecting for a long time. My car is a bad combo. Small cu in and has been hit many times over the years. There are some combos in my class that have 50 more cu in and also a lower HP rating than my combo No amount of hard work and money could get me anywhere near close to that combo. There are others similar that have 25 more Cu In and a lower HP factor. None of this matters to me because I know I cant win class or a heads up against these other combos. I just have to hope that I dont see them in eliminations. In my case I hope the AHFS helps out a bit in that regard. If I was anywhere near striking distance i might spend some more money and try to catch up. No chance of that right now though.

Personally I think mineshaft should be weather related before it is placed into effect. Low temp, low humidity and high Barometer should be the trigger along with stiff tail wind.

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so,... I suppose if somebody found some oddball, obscure combination lurking in the classification guide, that could run 1 1/2 seconds under , right off the bat, everybody would be cool with that never getting checked into? Kinds like years ago,when Glen Tinsley found a SS/GT combo with a Ford 460 4 barrel engine,that was rated at less than 200 HP? Also, does NMCA do teardowns like NHRA, and allow the same superseded and "replacement " parts? If NHRA adds or subtracts HP, does NMCA follow suit?

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2020 was an abbreviated schedule, lower car count, and didn't make mineshaft. 2019 ,18, 17 would have made it easily ,@ .95 under.
Without flat out conditions, I doubt you'll see it at Indy.

Re: New AHFS
 

Charlie don't surf! Jim



.

Re: New AHFS
 

Is that the way an odd number qualifying field calculated the mineshaft breaks (87car field +1=88 divided by 2=44 + 1 =45) before or is this a rule change. I would have had the 87 car field break at 44.

Paul Haszlauer

Re: New AHFS
 

So how is that good unless you have one of the fast cars, or an obscure combo that you found in the deep depths of the book? Then you can run your car as fast as you want for heads up races without ever having to worry about anything.

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#65 qualified at .855 under Indy 2020.

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Like NHRA, there are very few heads up runs but there is a curve ball: you can't go more than a tenth faster than the quicker car qualified in a heads up.

Love vs tolerate comes to mind.

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Personally I think mineshaft should be weather related before it is placed into effect. Low temp, low humidity and high Barometer should be the trigger along with stiff tail wind.[/QUOTE]

So if the DA is less than the actual elevation of the track it's mineshaft?

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Duane you have a PM.

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Yes.Let me clarify.
I should have spelled out what I meant.
2020 would not have met the new - .95 requirement, even though it was still a flat out deal. ;-)

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So you work on your performance based class to have your car capable of running 1+ seconds under, you have a heads up and the #1 qualifier was .89 under. You ice, thin oil and all the other stops and run 1.10 all out, maybe because you had a worse light. What happens then? You lose? Or maybe you both run more than a .10 under?

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Think Al needs to clarify, never heard of this “curve ball”, in fact it sounds more like a screw ball or knuckle ball.

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The NMCA gives points for qualifying position. They WANT our cars to go fast!

The .10 rule allows for ice, etc. (If you didn't do that during qualifying)

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Clarifying "curve ball" heads up.

Car A qualifies 105 under, Car B qualifies 75 under. If heads up, both boards read 115 under and normal breakout rules apply.

Just the messenger!

AC

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I'm a little bit confused; how can you break out on a heads up run?

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Think heads up like in Super Gas... or...?

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This is actually a rule that could help the AHFS work as intended and level the playing field for some of the soft combo’s. Don’t want to risk getting beat via breakout on a heads up run? Easy solution, qualify fast enough so the breakout is set faster than you or your opponent is capable of running.

Not saying I’m 100% in favor of it but it does have some merit. Flame away

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The "curve ball" they are referring to is in NMCA not NHRA. NMCA does it to keep someone from sandbagging and playing the ladder to get an easy heads up win. Personally I think AHFS is pile poo poo. Keeps entry level guys out of Stock. They may can only afford a 4 tenths under engine and hope to stay away from a headsup but when someone the same combo gets that combo hit with horsepower....now the entry level guy is even slower and has to spend more money but can't so he just goes back bracket racing which equals new racers lost. Let whoever run as fast as they want to within an exception(like super soft combos). NO reviews or HP at all unless someone goes 1.50 under.

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Delete

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Daren, I agree with you on this one. They just made us one step closer to a bracket class. The Baby Gators will be here before we know it. Who will run their car hard and take a chance of getting HP? Doubt it will qualify for a mine shaft race even though the weather can be really fast. Just not worth getting HP added to your combo for a class Wally. Why bother working on your car and testing parts just to have your combo hit with HP. Making you closer in ET to the people that don't care about performance and don't bother to work at it. Next thing is no more heads up runs. Why not just give everyone a Class Participation Trophy? Sad day for Stock Eliminator. For those of you that think this is a good idea I hope your combo is the first to get hit with HP. BP

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Maybe stock and super stock needs personal indexes like comp?????

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B Parker if I were you I’d stop working on your stuff, you can go 1.2+ under!
Let the rest of us catch up.

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Al explained it above.

Re: New AHFS
 

If you do a search on this site, you can find numerous earlier postings on how unfair "AHFS" was and many complaints from people that are not competitive in certain classes.

The way I see it, with the new "AHFS", as someone said earlier, the class has gone from a performance class to bracket racing and it will please those that want to race in the class and not work on their cars to make them competitive. We are going to be missing great performance class matches such as AAA, A, B, C and other classes such as U/SA. Due to the class becoming a bracket race and unattractive to many, I can also see many putting their cars for sale too.

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Well now, the way "I" see it, SS and Stock has turned from Eliminators in which the majority of Competitors were Innovators who took pride in doing their own combos and being judged by their winning against the competition, under the watchful eye of Tech, to being a bunch of hobby racers who just want to go fast and win no matter what. And Tech is rarely if ever an issue. How many modern SS/S racers build their own combos or even work on their own stuff? Why should they care if what they're racing is legal or not? Not much is being checked and "we" all know that "everybody's cheating anyway". Besides, it's the 21st century, if you get tossed in Tech, you can always sue the engine builder or NHRA.
How much Tech do you see at a bracket race?