Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Where would I find or be able to purchase the sheets of cars that I want to do research on?

I have viewed and copied some of the AMA Specifications and it makes for some interesting reading.

On one sheet I down loaded from from the web showed that the V8 is 115# heavier than the I6, but you had to figure the difference in shipping weight.

I just want to make sure my car is in compliance.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Looking at some of the older AMA sheets each car had two weights; a curb weight and a shipping weight *.

* Those are weights that are reported to states for licensing purposes.

I did the math on a few and it looks like shipping weight is about 95% of curb weight.

Some of the information I would like to look at I can’t find on the sheets.

Help!

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Shipping weight is a stripped average car model with a standard engine and no optional equipment and no driver. It includes fluids and just a few gallons of gas to start the car and move it a minimum distance.

The curb weight is a ready to drive car model, with specific options, with no driver, passengers, or cargo, with all the required fluids with a full tank of fuel.

Gross weight is the curb weight, plus the weight of the passengers, driver and cargo.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I believe NHRA will disagree with your definition, but I hope they do agree with you.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Shipping weight is literally what the name implies. There was an agreement between the members of the AMA and the transportation providers (trains and transport trucks) about a system to report weights for billing and logistics. The assumption was that the vehicles would be shipped with a minimum of fluids for safety concerns and that all options that would have a significant affect on the shipping weight would be documented and standardized. NHRA (Farmer Dismuke) determined that was the industry standard of weight and adopted it for NHRA's classification system. Before that, the cars were actually weighed at the track and the class break calculated then. It doesn't take much imagination to see why that didn't work.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

So does NHRA use curb weight or shipping weight on their classification sheets? Because in one particular instance, there is a 455 lbs difference between the two weights and NHRA has the curb weight listed as the shipping weight on the classification sheet.

You can see why it is very interesting to see what NHRA actually uses for classification purposes. This would move this particular car up 2 classes.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

As Dwight stated in his post, that is the industry definition for shipping weight.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

So who stirred the shipping weight pot? or more specifically is Brandon working for NHRA now....

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

If I remember the American Auto Manufacturers Association was disbanded about 30 years ago at that point the people at the auto companies sent the weights to NHRA and from that point in time there was alt of stretching the truth!

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Yes, it was dissolved due when foreign companies started to purchase ownership of American car companies. The new group is called Alliance for Automotive Innovation and it includes all worldwide companies so they can share innovation and technologies.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I believe the issue is the revision of shipping weight on Chevy products which had an effect on the classes they run.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Not only Chevy but I went to bed with an A/SA and woke up with a C/SA car. NHRA you just got to love them. Pat, Wesley, or Lonnie could have given us some kind of heads up.
What’s the verbiage “Verified by.........”

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I wonder if there are more to come. Maybe that is why they haven't mentioned it yet. How many drivers will show up at Pomona with their car in the wrong class. It seem 70 Cudas are all heavier now. I told Errol Farmer his 340 six pack can't run D/SA anymore. How about like Larry. The 70 cuda with a 440 4bbl is a natural F/SA car. I see some of the 71 Mopar B-Bodies are different too.
I did check my 440 69 Dart. So far no change...not yet anyway.

Paul Haszlauer

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

The 6 pack Cuda and Challengers are now a natural "C" car so the best we can run is "B"
I'm not sure how or why this was so top secret!?
We was the process of trying to get weight out of the car due to the athletic figure of the driver. Then I get a phone call at midnight saying I now have to put 200lbs back in the car. How is this even possible?

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

440 6bbl E-Body cars are natural "C/SA" now as Larry said. 9.18 factor.
Over night, Larry's and many other six packs went from a A/SA to a natural C/SA. Can now run D/SA. What the....? Obviously B/SA will have a new fast car.
Paul

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

My Cuda has been a natural SS/DA since 1970. 52 years later they figure out, NO, you're natural SS/EA??!!https://doverdragstrip.com/wp-conten...20Zeppelin.jpg

Funny thing was 1971 Cuda was always natural "E" car. seems some converted to 70 just to run SS/CA. Someone threw the heavier shipping weight '71 car a bone after 52 years and.... Have to convert to '71 to run SS?CA?????

WTF NHRA!!!!
Now you tell me LOL and SMH!!

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/x...y/DSC00611.jpg

opened up a new can of worms....

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

A lot of the combinations are not listed in the
AMA Specifications-Passanger Cars sheets

Have y’all noticed the price of lead lately. I wonder in NHRA owns lead future’s

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

The N.H.R.A. Technical Dept.gets a big fail for not sending a notification to all the racers or at the very least posting a statement on the Competition page.
I was impressed with Lonnie, but this is just unacceptable.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Shipping weight can be adjusted by NHRA at a whim. A few years ago they changed the shipping weight of 89 Mustang coupe to a lighter shipping weight to make that body group for 1987-1993 unable to change 4 classes as the weights between those various years and models were originally listed from the factory. Some years were light and most of the 89's were heavy depending on transmission and model. A couple of us got bounced out of N/SA when they made up a new weight for the 89 coupe.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I was surprised to hear how often racers take on the task of correcting shipping weights. I know someone who reached out to NHRA to correct the shipping weight on some Fox bodies, and someone else who was correcting them on certain Mavericks and Comets. I wondered how the info that they dug up was different from what NHRA had and put in the guide years ago.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Like I said a lot of interesting information in the AMA sheets: a 68 FE 390 valves are ground on 45* for all Hp listed. The 427FE valves are listed as being ground on 30 *. Both the engines with 4V listed as .4809 lift intake, .490 exhaust, with hyd lifters.

Ford had a daisy chain on the engine adds, from a 302 2V up to 427 4V. This is the chain on a 1968 GT Torino Fastback your choice of starting weight.
Curb weight. 3362# About 95% of curb weight Shipping weight 3208#.

390 2V vs 302 2V +243#
390 4V vs 390 2V. + 37#
427 4V vs 390 4V. + 70#

A similar process is used on the transmissions

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I meant to put C. It was a "B".....lol late night typing.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Mr Joe now it figures 9.18 lbs per rated HP =C

What I cant find in the AMA sheets and I've looked at 1967-1972 at all of the Ford stuff. I have yet to find a .527/.527 lift camshaft for the 428/360/335 engine. You would think it would be highlighted in yellow.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Possibly need a lemon and a hair dryer to see it.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I guess Dwight`s site has not updated this new development, but upon looking at the 70 Barracuda/Cuda page, couldn`t help but find it interesting, that unlike most other combos, both the 340 and 440 6 barrel combos are rated considerably LOWER with Edelbrock aluminum heads, than the factory iron heads. the AAR 340 3x2 is rated at 319HP with iron heads, and only 304 with the Edelbrocks, and the automatic 440 6bbl is 395 HP with iron, and 377(!) with Edelbrocks! Pretty sweet deal, the Edelbrock heads allow the car to weigh 150 pounds less than iron. Any other combos get less HP with aftermarket heads? They must be a real awful "upgrade".

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Ya know, I was under the impression that when this whole thing went down you had the option of using the "easier to find" aftermarket heads BUT with a 10 HP penalty!
Some how, the Mopar aftermarket heads were allowed to become a separate combo and are now judged by themselves. Probably had something to do with a prior NTD.

Hey, maybe the new guy in charge should have a look at straightening this mess out.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

The heads came with a penalty of Hp. The current Hp is correct

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

In my case (1980 Aspen RT) it’s unlikely any weight change will impact my preferred class. So I complete the online tech card and it pre-populates the card for the next event, so now I have to verify before every event that my shipping weight and P/W numbers haven’t been mysteriously updated by NHRA which would technically mean I could submit an incorrect card? Completely expect that NHRA Comp page should be updated anytime a platform is changed. Hello, Lonnie?

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

When you go to a store to buy milk and price is marked $2.50, at check out the milk rings up at $3.75. The purchase is made and latter consumed but the sour taste of the milk lasts forever. The best surprise is no surprise.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

No, they're NOT correct!
We were SOLD the aftermarket head premise based on the fact that you could use the aftermarket head with a 10 HP weight penalty based on the factor of the correct iron head. This is now being treated as if the aluminum head is an entirely different combo, which it's not.
It was never SOLD to us as being a different combo. It HAS been re-constituted and FED to us in this way.

Here I go "hi-jacking" another one of your threads, sorry Buddy.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Billy I always try to go by the rules as written. I dont think you're hijacking anything.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

As near as I can tell on the 70/1 Challenger and the Cuda, its all the big block cars(I'm not sure if the hemi got heavier as well, they were always pretty heavy)

Ironically, my previously overweight 70 RT just got more interesting and can now run H and I with some traction aiding balast.

Eric

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

It's a funny thing!
If you look at a Rule Book or go on-line and look at a Rule Book, the "rules" regarding aftermarket aluminum heads aren't written down anywhere.
Must be written in the Super Top Secret Tech Inspector Only Rule Book!

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Billy, regarding the whole aluminum head deal, supposedly the aftermarket heads were allowed because supposedly usable production castings were getting hard to find. Considering the majority of the "allowed" heads were made in huge numbers, it seems odd to me that guys were having trouble scrounging up SB & BB Chevy castings, SB and FE Ford heads, SB & BB MoPar wedge heads, yet the guys with truly rare heads, like the 413 and 426 Max Wedge guys somehow manage to able to carry on. Just seems a bit odd. Maybe as a guy whose combination was not blessed with aftermarket heads,(or intake manifold), at least for Stock, I am somewhat skeptical .

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Rory, I agree with everything that you've said. They were "allowed" WITH a 10 HP penalty over the production head.
Somehow, the Mopar heads are being treated as if the aluminum head is a different combo from the OEM head with it's own HP factor. Not the +10 HP over the OEM head that NHRA originally assigned.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I think the 1970 Hemi Cuda got changed as well. I believe AA/SA is a no go now. How one of the fastest production cars can't run the top class is a bit off. It is hard to tell all the changes unless you own 20 different combinations. I thought a 70 340 Duster could run D/SA but I see the factor is a natural F/SA now. All the 71 Charger combinations became heavier.

Paul

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

For Mopar racers I'm a bit surprised that 906 heads are hard to find, Larry world know as I'm sure he has quite a few of them, and I'm unaware of what head is being use on the Max Wedge cars but do know the 518 is fairly hard to come by.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Its like that for all the aftermarket heads! All have been treated as a separate combo.

Billy- What happens when the "aftermarket heads" get the HP hit? Does it effect the "stock head" HP Factor too?

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I can understand your point BUT that's not the way that it was "sold" to us.

IMHO, if the aftermarket head (carrying a +10 factor) gets a HP hit then yes, it should affect the stock head.

The point of my side of this conversation is that whatever the "stock head" HP factor is, the "aftermarket head" factor should be +10!

These "aftermarket" heads were not handed out to be of any advantage other than that of access to the Racer. If the Racer chooses to take advantage of the ease of access provided by the "aftermarket" head then the Racer should be willing to accept the +10 HP/weight penalty.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Aluminum or replacement heads - Some received a 10 hp adjustment and others 5. On our 318 combo we petitioned NHRA for the 5 hp like our Chevy bros recd and we got it. Noticed some bb chevy also recd 10. Not sure the thinking with NHRA. Typo?

All the engine gurus i talk to say the aluminum head loses 15 hp apples to apples. I'm thinking untouched that is probably correct but with the better combustion chambers etc who knows.

So if an aluminum is untouched there could be a hp reduction under the then current factored rating. I know our 340 aluminum ss cant compare to the steel head factor. +17 hp difference on aluminum, not 10 or 5.