Advice for new guy getting started
 

Hope this is the right sub forum to ask this…

I want to get started in drag racing, with the aim to run stock. I got the NHRA rule book on its way and have taken the time to read through the book online already. I have built motors for rebuilds (nothing fancy just warmed up a bit from stock). I have been spending some time here reading through some interesting threads.

I currently have a stock 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 limited and a 1992 ford ranger standard cab 4 cylinder manual trans. The Jeep I rebuilt the transmission recently and did a transgo shift correction kit. Other than that, both cars are completely stock.

The advice I need is, which of my two vehicles would you choose to start racing with and why?

I can see that with the Jeep (nhra puts this in the m/s class) it has an advantage of having a 360, trailing arms that act like four bar suspension, coil springs on the rear and it’s a limited slip rear axle. Disadvantage is it’s all wheel drive. That is a lot of friction to overcome to put the power to the ground.

With the ranger, running a slow class would be cheaper and allow more room to learn to drive the track. I know that first thing would be having to swap the rear end as the current axle won’t hold up to anything more that the severely tired 2.3 Lima that’s in it right now.

Thanks in advance.

I should add that I have grown up with family members that are hot rodders, so have been around and researched building up decent v8’s. I just haven’t built a nice motor for myself yet.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Taking a look at both of these combos, while both of these I wouldn't consider being ideal to make a low cost build, the ranger may be the better of the two. For starters I would think the 4 cylinder would be more cost effective to build. The 120 hp rating is what may make things tough. I think the stick shift helps with a low horsepower, relatively lightweight combo like that. I'm sure Billy, Mark, or Dwight would be of help with their experience of finding the most bang for buck combos in the guide. Good luck with whichever build you choose. I would even suggest starting a thread under the "class racer builds" sub forum when you start the build.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

It may not be listed in the guide ,but the ZJ Grands were available as 2 wheel drive models with a straight tube front axle ,as were all Jeep models . there was a fairly strong market for the rear wheel only models in southern states where the 4 wd was not really necessary and the Jeep were seen as status "driveway ornaments ". The Jeep dealership I worked for always kept at least one of each in stock
There may be potential in the combo ,but it surely will not be an inexpensive build to get it competitive .
Do a LOT of research before diving in . It may be wiser, and possibly cheaper to start with a known combo. Look into Billy Nees' posts on "DIME ROCKETS" for some ideas.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

As always, buying a car, or truck, that is done and raceable, even if it's not way under, is a good idea. It will allow you to get to the track and learn how to race, which is not the same as learning how to put a car together.

Will likely save you a lot of time and money spent unwisely.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

WaIt till 2023 to decide your class. What’s good now m i g h t not be so good then.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

That is good info to know, I have never really been a Jeep guy. This one came in to the shop I used to work at with a hurt transmission. Bought from the customer for $200, got it home and pulled it apart. Snap ring leg go in the rear half of the case, which caused a bunch of havoc everywhere else. So far I’m only into it $1000 including purchase and it drives great now.

Makes me wonder about finding a front tube axle setup, pull the transfer case and put on the tail shaft housing from a dodge truck with the 46re.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Is there big changes coming in 2023? Or are you referring to deciding to competing up/down or at designated class?

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

NHRA has already shown there will be changes but how much is the question.
Longggg Overdue on some.
Pm sent

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Ya know, I have to say this just to get it out of the way, an awful lot of Stocker projects that are started with all good intentions never get finished.

My advice?
Do a project that you know you can get done AND afford to get done.
Don't start a project just because you have the car.
If you want to go fast, don't build a lower class car.
If you want to build cheap, don't build a higher class car.
The Jeep is an interesting combo (and a good one) but it won't be cheap OR easy.
The Ranger could be a good combo but it could get expensive in a hurry if you're not a good DIYer.
There are a good many "starter" combos out there that you should be able to get and finish without getting disgusted and/or broke.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Never seen a Jeep in Stock before

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Best advice I can give is go to several NHRA Divisonal races and hangout. Whatch all the Q and E runs at several races. Take notes on the cars you like.
Research the Stock Car Guide and learn the HP rating of the combos that you are interested in.
Any combo you Race must be in the guide to Race in Stock Eliminator

Then make you decision and drive in the water.

Class Racing is the Best.

Steve Teeter STK/SS 620

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

We have a one here in D1 for many years .
A very competitive Jeep Commanche 2 WD pick up with a 4.0 L six

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

I'm not an expert like many of the guys who post here. But here are my opinions, which many here will disagree with.

(1) IF you are not an experienced bracket racer, I HIGHLY recommend that you begin bracket racing ASAP. Unless you run against a vehicle in the same class as you, most every round of Stock Elim is a bracket race.

SO, if you aren't a good bracket racer, you won't be a good Stock Elim racer, especially if your vehicle won't run very far under it's index.

(2) Run an auto trans. It's SO much easier to learn to race & cut good lights, with an auto trans. Also much cheaper to build & maintain than with a manual trans vehicle.

Note: There are still some die hard stick racers out there. I respect that. I started with a stick, in Stock Elim, before there was any bracket racing in my area. Won quite a few local races with it. But when bracket racing took over in my area, we switched over to auto trans, & won lots of bracket races. So, I've raced both, and would not even attempt to run a competitive bracket car or Stocker, with a stick trans. Opinions differ.

Don't know your racing budget. BUT, if it is within your budget, you might consider buying a cheap race-ready bracket car.

OR, IF you can find a slow Stocker, for a reasonable price, you could use it for both Stock & bracket racing. Might check with these guys who have built these "dime rockets" they talk about & see if any of 'em will give you a good deal on one that's ready to race.

Good luck !

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Sure enough, nice looking truck and actually a reasonable price for being able to go far under the index plus all the spares. Note: Class racing is not for the faint of heart or thin of wallet, with some notable exceptions like Billy, Mark and a few others. Also, vehicles with a large frontal area can be challenging to dial.

https://www.racingjunk.com/stock-sup...=2&from=search

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

This may give you something to think about. Ellis gives out a lot of good information regarding his 91 Ranger.

https://youtu.be/JKNuYqDqNWg

Sean

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

The biggest thing is,” what’s your budget”?

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Right now about 4K, but can add more as paychecks come in.

I got a lot of replying to do, but my goal for this weekend is to create a list of what needs to be done on each to be ready to even get on the track. I’m sure this will factor into decision making for me.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

I built two and bought one and each one only wanted two things ; Time and Money.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

If you know someone in your location that races in Stock Eliminator ask if you can help them with the car and also go to as many races as possible and listen and learn before you spend the time and money on your own project.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

If I had to start over I would go to a race and find a car that I liked and buy it a racer starting out will spend 100 times more than you think getting the car set up. Much easier to buy one first then work on the car and learn with the right stuff already done

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

My advice is simple... Build or buy the fastest possible car or truck you can afford..or not afford.
Years ago I bracket raced almost every weekend with a friend that also raced a 65 Impala in stock. I wanted to jump into stock eliminator bad...but didn't have much 🤑 money. I told him I found a 80 something charger 2.2 turbo 4 cyl. It would go way under came with tons of spare parts and was CHEAP...he said don't do it... have you ever seen one of those really slow cars win the eliminator?...well no. A gust of wind at the 1000ft will kill it! Of course you can tow it all over the country to races that have class eliminations and win a bunch of little Wally's.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Hmmmm....

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Who was the Fel Pro guy that raced one? Really nice guy, I forgot his name.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

So looked at the dime rocket thread… funny enough someone did mention the 98 Jeep with the 5.9. I got under it earlier today to take a look at the bushings in the rear suspension (not for too long though, pouring down rain). Probably going to order a poly bushing kit from energy suspension to tighten things up a bit. However, the rear suspension looks like it’s got some great potential. I need to plot everything out and see if it’s got squat or anti squat.

I’m leaning towards the Jeep for now. It would be a good truck to get my feet wet in racing. Motor runs strong, transmission on a fresh rebuild. Main concern is getting an SFI rated damper, roll bar, 5 point harness, and whether or not the diffs need c clip eliminators (I keep reading mixed info on the Dana 44 aluminum retainer type some say no c clip and others say the aluminum housing has c clips). I also need to take a look at the clutch packs for the limited slip. Oh yeah and a driveline hoop.

The ranger will take a lot of work. Motor and trans need a rebuild, they are both tired. Rear end is tiny and prone to breaking on anymore than stock torque. New leaf springs, track bars, shocks, etc.

The jeep is more of a get in and go as opposed to the ranger.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Good luck with your project. You didn`t mention trailer, tow vehicle etc. If you are going to race NHRA Divsionals, you should plan to be there Friday morning. Stockers are called out for qualifying first, (in D1 anyway) 8:30-9:00a am. If you have to take time off from work on Friday, the cost of a hotel for two nights, fuel to travel, fuel to race and the generous NHRA entry fee, you will be looking at $600-800 or so. You can show up EARLY on Saturday and sleep in the truck, but missing two time shots could make dialing tricky. Of course, either way, you will have to deal with the sharks who have been racing their combos for decades. Losing first round gets old quick. Making laps at a local track`s bracket program will get you seat time and help you make informed decisions.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

IF you think for one minute that your Jeep "is more of a get in and go" deal, let me save you the time and trouble, don't even start.

IF you want to do this deal then make your Jeep a Limited (NHRA doesn't care about the interior, only the badges and outside trim) and run N. No rollbar, harness, damper, jacket.

IF you want to listen to Mr. e vassar, don't do the Jeep.
There's still a few of us out here who have done OK with underpowered non-aerodynamic combos but you DO have to pay attention to the weather and wind.

IF you really want something that you can "get your feet wet" in and save about $2,500 of your $4,000 budget for your next victim, look at my thread in the ClassRacer Builds section "Not Fer Nuthin' But Close". It's inexpensive (I didn't say cheap!), cars, parts and support are readily available and it's not a bad little car to drive (in spite of what Mr. e vassar might think). And OBTW, I Bracket Race the car at my local track, it doesn't care if you call it an NHRA Stocker or a Bracket car.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

His name is Greg West. I understand that truck is somewhere in Wisconson running brackets seen on Youtube.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Not sure about the " get in and go" statement. most stock vehicles aren't capable of running the index. That's why Billy has a gift or searching thru the guide looking for HP factors that allow some cars to do that. What is the index for the class that Jeep will run?

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

4K is not going to get you very far. Might get you started, but it will take more time and more money than you can even imagine. If you’re patient you can get it done over 2 or 3nyears.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Now, THERE'S a pep talk for ya!

This is why Stocker projects don't get finished!

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Agree....winning is possible!!!

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Decided to go with building the Ranger. It’s simpler and les expensive than the Jeep. I can use the Jeep as a tow vehicle, as well as it is a more reliable daily driver. Time to start posting a build thread!

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Wishing you the best of luck.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Good luck.

However, there is a LOT of good advice here and I think your exuberance is (naturally) blinding you:

"Don't start a project just because you have the car." -Billy Nees

And, go to the track several times and learn, learn, learn! I'm paraphrasing, I can't find the exact post(s).

Respectfully, your naivete' is glaring. But that will be with anything we have to learn. Even more reason to learn, learn, learn!

When I raced, I did it with a friend who had been doing it for years. I learned a lot before we partnered, because I went to the track with him. I learned a LOT more when I jumped in. By the way, I had bracket raced a lot before this. Stock Eliminator is an expensive way to learn how to race.

Oh, the biggest reason I stopped? I wanted to be able to retire on more than just Social Security. I had to be honest with myself about my financial future.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Alright, first of all make your '92 into a '91 (if that's possible I'm not much of a FFFord guy). '91 is at 105 HP vs. 120 HP for the '92.
Second, try and reach out to Ellis Buth if you can. He obviously knows the combo and what to do with it. He might even be able to get you going as an index runner while you get accustomed to running in Stock.
Last, who's going to do your F.I.? '91 and '92 would be OBD1 and that stuff isn't the easiest to get to cooperate in a Stocker and it isn't very well supported in the aftermarket so you're probably looking at an aftermarket ECU.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and this just might be worth posting again.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

buy a car that's ready to go.something cheap like this https://www.racingjunk.com/stock-sup...np_offset=59#6

its cheaper and and you will be racing the next day.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

Some where in here he said that he had 4 grand to spend.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

I had a Chevy Cobalt SS (sport sedan w/o supercharger) Had the car sitting in my driveway, car ran great. After talking with Billy, Yac and some others and seeing what Billy was going thru with his computer I decided to shelf the idea and sold the car. It was going to take much more that what I anticipated to get the car to be competitive running in class. The best advice is listen to what these guys are recommending they have been through this many times. I admire Billy and the cars he runs, love his Nova since I am a Nova fan. I appreciate the advise very much that these guys gave me.

Sometimes you can find some great deals with cars that are already built, and sorted out. I am semi retired, yet still keep my eyes open for deals that are out there and already sorted out.

Re: Advice for new guy getting started
 

RUN!