COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

I happened to be at Speedworld for one of the first test sessions of the then new blown CJs. John Calvert, Gary Stinnett and a few others were there with the Brent Hajek cars.
The stick cars would just wring the tires off them and wouldn't lift the nose more than an inch. I remember thinking that these cars will be a bear to make consistent and competitive. I know it could be all about the clutch in the stick cars.
Fast forward to today... I see FX cars with big hp and torque numbers cutting great lights and wheelie-ing to lots of dead on runs, and winning eliminators, ..on 9 inch tires.
How is it being done? Timing? Starting out with minus numbers? Boost control? What else?
We hear that the COPOs don't use drive by wire. Do the others?

I'm thinking this thread might belong one floor down, if we get actual tech oriented answers.
Not sure we will. It might take membership in the Six Figures Club to find out ;-)

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

I'm pretty sure that the FFFords come as DBWs. I don't know about the DPs but I have heard a rumor that Larry Hill's DP uses a piece of string tied on the TB and looped around his big toe.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

I don't know how much of a speed secret it would be,but it couldn't hurt.
The 9 inch tires that you are referring to are not really 9 inch tires.
Goodyear came out with a wider one in 2022,and Hoosier is making an even wider one in 2023.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Markie - Did you really think any of us were going to just spit out our secrets??? I'm not so sure that even joining the Six Figure Club will help you .......But I will tell you I don't use DBW in my COPO's.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Jacko, No. Actually I didn't...and so far we're still okay in this section. ;-)

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

I have seen data logs from a Ultra Street NOS car that is around the same weight, that was pulling over 2.2 G's on a 275 DR. If these new tires are lets say 255 I would think a min of 1.95 G's. So just a WAG for the 632.

60 Foot ET = 1.2241
330 Foot ET = 3.4843
1/8 Mile ET = 5.4284
1/8 Mile MPH = 126.1316
1000 Foot ET = 7.1115
1/4 Mile ET = 8.5372
1/4 Mile MPH = 158.1890

Stan

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

I know the CJs we’re DBW from the factory, but I believe some have converted them to cable. The couple of factory showdown COPOs I have been around we’re all cable throttle. As far as getting down the track, mostly it’s in the tune. A lot of timing pulled on the launch. Not sure about boost control.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Geoff Turk is really covering the build of his BlackbirdX on Facebook. He hasn't put pedals in it yet, but has started the motor. I would guess his is DBW. They are on a 10.5 tire.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

i know jack has nothing to hide as i have seen him blow the tires off many times, however i have been watching a blue cobra jet that leaves like a four cyl. and come alive like a banshee going down track, so if its allowed, dbw, percentage is prob. whats happening, it seemed much more likely than just pulling timing, but is more than certain some form of traction control and from what i saw, it was deadly....

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

It really doesn't make a lot of sense to take the throttle out. Modern ECU's have almost infinite control of timing. Shocks, tires, and gearing might want to be added into the equation when trying to figure out what makes the supercharged cars work so well?

I can tell you that every COPO that I have campaigned has run without limiting the throttle by anything other than the drivers foot.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Thanks but the new Comp type class is not pertinent here.

They're all FX cars, by definition (Super Stockers)

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Your initial post and the thread title says FX, So what is the actual discussion? FX cars, FS, or FSS?
As someone who’s family owns one of each of the manufacturers, the CJ’s directly from Ford use DBW, and they are the only versions that do.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

BC, That would be all the non- showroom, non- emissions certified, no VIN, factory experimental cars that run in Stock Eliminator ;-)

Thanks for that info

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

So, are you really asking about power management?

Or, is this just one more whiny thread about how bad the FS cars are and how they've ruined your life?

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Mark the 09 DP cars have a Vin# mine is 2009051. Non DBW

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

GUMP,
Believe it or not, it's the former.
They haven't ruined my life one bit.
But, an argument could be made that they ruined the concept of Stock Eliminator

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Timing & fuel.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Larry, I believe that is a sequential build number?

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Seems to work very well, maybe some of the other fast cars will take note! I understand you can achieve this with a grid ignition but I know absolutely nothing about ecu’s and how they can be tuned for this. It must be a fine line between a true traction control and pre set parameters. Is tech checking for this? I do know that they can check the grid for an arc module. I have been checked 2xs for that and 2xs for other electronics. I’m glad they did take the time to check. Just wondering if this is done to the new computer cars and drive by wire and the like. I must admit watching an 8 sec car on a small tire leave so soft was very interesting

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Name one rule that was changed to accommodate them....

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Easy enough....
Section 11A, page 1 Stock Cars
SECTION 11
STOCKCategory is based on a handicap start using the NHRA index
system; breakout rules apply. Note: For more information on the
Automatic Horsepower Factoring System, visit NHRARacer.com.
SECTION 11A
STOCK CARS
DESIGNATIONS
FS/AA, FS/A, FS/B, FS/C, FS/D, FS/E, FS/F, FS/G, FS/H, FS/I,
FS/J, FS/K, FS/L, AA/S, A/S, B/S, C/S, D/S, E/S, F/S, G/S, H/S,
I/S, J/S, K/S, L/S, M/S, N/S, O/S, P/S, Q/S, R/S, T/S, U/S, V/S,
and W/S (manual transmission), preceded by car number. AA/
SA, A/SA, B/SA, C/SA, D/SA, E/SA, F/SA, G/SA, H/SA, I/SA, J/
SA, K/SA, L/SA, M/SA, N/SA, O/SA, P/SA, Q/SA, R/SA, T/SA, U/
SA, V/SA, and W/SA (automatic transmission), preceded by car
number. AAF/S, AF/S, BF/S, CF/S, DF/S, and EF/S (front-wheel-
drive), preceded by car number.
Reserved for 1955 or newer model-year factory-production
automobiles and some sports cars. Classified per NHRA
performance rating as listed in the Official NHRA Stock Car
Classification Guide. Only those cars listed in the guide are
eligible for competition. All cars in Stock classes must be factory-
production assembled, showroom available, and in the hands of
the general public. A minimum 500 units of a particular body style
must be produced

Should we go on?

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Actually, the classes themselves were created to stop all the crying. The cars came first...

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Here's another one:


"Aluminum
center section permitted only on vehicles that were originally
equipped with same."


In other words, a "stock" CJ II center section is not allowed in another Ford CJ 1

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

More...

"Porting, polishing, welding, epoxying and acid-porting prohibited.
Combustion-chamber modifications prohibited. "

I don't see where CNC porting is allowed

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Good GAWD Gump, you ever seen a nine inch FORD rear end in a 69 Camaro stock eliminator car ????

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

I maybe wrong be wasn't AMC the first to offer ported heads?


Stan

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

I guess the argument has now turned to interpreting the rules?

Every turn-key late model factory car came with a 9" rear and aluminum center section. The 2008-up rule came when racers started converting the factory cars to their production version around 2015.

Factory ported heads were in the guide before 2008.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Mr. Gump, just answer my question …..

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

[QUOTE=MR DERBY CITY;675015]Good GAWD Gump, you ever seen a nine inch FORD rear end in a 69 Camaro stock eliminator car ????[

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

"Distance between backing plates may not
be changed. "

Is that the distance of the trailer axle that came from the manufacturer to the sub-contractor?

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

You are correct there, and there's more that they didn't have to change back from the COPOs

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

A 9" wouldn't be legal in a 1969 Camaro in Stock Eliminator. So, tell me why your question isn't dumb?

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Still not a rule change.

For what it's worth, my 2010 Drag Pak came with instructions that included very clear measurements.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Oh okay. So was rear width the same as the showroom models? You know, lots of backspacing in the wheels?

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Mr. Gump , there is a reason they call it stock eliminator. You know, minor details like a Chevy rear end in a Chevy, a Ford rear end in a Ford. NHRA could have done us all a big favor if they just put these CRATE MOTOR cars in Superstock eliminator …..

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

Ya know M.J. you're right. BUT that's not where the Manufacturers wanted them. And you've got to admit that they sure are popular as there sure are a ton of them out there and being built. I'm sorry to say it but if it weren't for them, we'd be calling ourselves Nostalgia Stock because there's no great rush of Racers building Stock Eliminator Cavaliers, Escorts and Neons.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

750-1000 HP cars being factored at 400-550 is pretty accomodating. Look on Jegs website for example. 632 copo motor out of the crate makes 1004 out of the box. The super charged 350's had an NHRA factor of 550-580. Those were well over 1000 out of the box in a crate. I wont even mention how the hoods seem to be getting taller as the cars get newer as well. NHRA has bent over backwards to accomodate these factory cars to make them fit Stock Eliminator. Im just curious if there are any wires hanging off that 9" center section when it comes from the factory.

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

NHRA could fix that. For a long time Pro Stock had I believe it was a 5 year rule.All NHRA needs to do is add a 40 or 50 year rule for stock. :rolleyes:


Stan

Re: COPO, Drag-Pak, CJ II, (FX) Secrets
 

NHRA tried a "20 Year" rule once and it didn't work out very well for them.