Protests
 

After hearing about the protested crankshaft at Indy, I have been thinking about it a good bit. I think that it is time for the teardown rules to be updated.

1. You should have to be at the race to protest.

2. If you protest a part, you should have to tear down to prove that you are legal too.

3. The tear down fees need to be raised to match dealership hourly rates and parts prices.

Re: Protests
 

Does anyone know where to find a list of the minimum legal weights for approved crankshafts for stock eliminator?

Re: Protests
 

Chuck, I would check with the gentleman(#@$%&) that protested you.
It would seem he has a handle on crankshaft weights. And to add to
Gump's list, the protester must be identified.

J.R.

Re: Protests
 

Why as the protester should you have to tear down?
They are paying for the info
And how is it possible to protest someone without being on the property
Don’t you have to put up the $ and complaint?

Re: Protests
 

From the NHRA Rulebook. I don’t have any respect for someone who doesn’t have the guts to say they protested someone. Mike McMahan 2543 G/SA

Contestant protests may only be filed by a driver or registered vehicle owner competing in the same event and in the same eliminator category, as the vehicle being protested.

Re: Protests
 

Who protested who and for what?

Re: Protests
 

Re: Protests
 

I went through this,no teardown but through very good sources be ready at the Baby Gators after the Divisional at Belle Rose in February. I learned alot from Mr. Wesley from Division 4!!! First,,get a rule book and read the guidelines for a legal protest and from the sounds of this one,,it wasn't done by the rule book.

Re: Protests
 

I thought the protest had to be filed before any eliminations had started. Also heard the teardown was slow to start because NHRA crew was waiting on a printout of Chuck's engine specs.

Re: Protests
 

It is my opinion that, if you feel that an opponent has something illegal going on, you should also prove that you don't.

If both have to teardown, it will stop someone raiding their piggy bank just to mess with another competitor.

Does anyone know a good automotive repair shop that will pull a crank and put everything back for $750.00?

Re: Protests
 

Do you have to be in the same individual class as the car you protest? In Beuthel's case F/SA or just be in stock eliminator?
Seems like you should be in the same class otherwise anyone there with 750.00 to blow could do it just to be a jerk.

Re: Protests
 

In my case I knew who protested me and it was just to be a jerk and on top of that he did not have to put up any money.
The Division Director told me it was at his discretion to require inspection and that was what he did.
I believe any protestor should be named and money put up.
If it turns out everything was legal the protestor should be named when the legal person is named as being legal.
Just my experience.
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX

Re: Protests
 

I have been shouting for several years now that if one files a protest, fees need to be paid at the time of the filing.. there also needs to be a document created, and filled out by the protester, stating the supposed infractions.. this form should include the protester's name, and NHRA membership number should be required.. as well as proof that the required fees have been paid.. ANNDDDDD, no protests can be filed via cellphone.. if you at there, YOU AIN'T!!.. making a call, then putting fees on a credit card, is bogus.. IN REAL LIFE, everyone has the right to face their accuser..

Didn't someone pull this stunt during the Gators, complaining about someone's firewall while not even being in the same State??.. is this the same guy??.. asking for a friend..

I'm not sure about the protester being torn down, just for being the protester, BUT, I'm sure there just might be that move as retaliation.. JUST SAYIN'..

Re: Protests
 

We got protested at Indy a few years ago after SS class eliminations were complete and had to report to the barn. All went fine and the trophy stayed in our hands. The NHRA rule book states that a formal protest does need to be prior to any eliminations. It is Indy though. I do agree that any form of protest should never be anonymous.

Re: Protests
 

Not the same classes, but retribution is not new.

One year at Indy, one Pro Stock team protested another. My memory is hazy enough to not remember what was being protested but have a strong impression it involved Yates and Morgan.

I think Yates was the original, and then Morgan immediately protested him. He was not hiding anything, and was telling anyone who would listen that if his guys were going to be up all night, so was the other team. He picked an area at random to have checked.

Both cars passed and I never saw this again. I don't know if there were any behind the scenes action by Glendora, but for whatever reason it was a one time deal.


That aside, there have some very good suggstions already made and I agree with all of them. The protest procedure is needed and important, but first, the present rules should be followed; and second, an obvious attempt to affect another team's ability to race should not be taken lightly and those who do it for spite should face consequences.

Re: Protests
 

I question why anything else was checked. The protester protested the crank. Everything else should not have been checked.

Re: Protests
 

If the protest was concerning the Crank (and the crank is inspected & checks legal), then the money paid as a protest fee, should instantly go to the party being protested. (But, that should, and will probably, only be the end of the protest). Their $750.00 (or whatever the protest fee required at the time is, that was posted and paid to NHRA before the teardown), should then be paid to the legal contestant. (They passed that test).

As far as the balance of the teardown, if you are in the barn, and are submitting to the teardown (everyone signs the same documents, and waivers, promises, and has the same rulebook, all prior to entering a race and paying entry fees, though may have differing combos and specs), and each has the right to submit or decline to the teardown...as nobody is held hostage, (and also pay the consequences if the latter is chosen), but once you have entered that barn...If NHRA wants to cc the head, or weigh a rotating assembly, check the intake, etc...It is their right to do so at that point.

You are submitting to an NHRA Inspection we all knew, and agreed to, in advance & at any time (in accordance with the PRINTED rules of course in effect at that particular time, as they are amended often), just like there are separate rules for a protest (with posted fee requirements...when, where, how, etc.), vs a random pullout inspection.

So, unless they amend the rules (in the protest section to reflect "just the protested item will be inspected"), then I think you would be hard pressed to get away with saying no when asked for a head, rotating assembly or anything else. I'm Just saying.

The issue I am hearing (or understanding by just the thread convo so far , as I was not at Indy, so I have ZERO First Hand Knowledge), is that nobody knows who the protester was, and they get to remain anonymous, and they only protested the deepest part of the package (the crank), it may have been retribution, hurt feelings, and the most concerning part...Someone who may not even have been present at the event? And more...

I don't know if my feelings would go so far as to say (both need to tear down), as the protester already (even with deep wallets around), has posted a fee that he risks losing.

But ,if we are just suggesting and discussing things here, I would love to see it amended to read that the protester must also report to the barn and not leave until the protested part(s) are inspected and ruled upon (and if the contestant is declared illegal, he protester may leave the barn with his protest fee in hand, but if legal, the protested competitor gains the fee, and the protester must remain in the barn until that vehicle is fully buttoned up, loaded up and the vehicle, driver, crew, and tools all drive off.

And the NHRA Techs then alone with them get to nod, OK (you made us all stay up for nothing, and lost the protest fee, so you can go now, have a nice evening).

Sorry, not sorry, but I think that would just be more fitting, and so he/she loses just the same amount of sleep as everyone else, and stop any crazy advantage the next morning. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Protests
 

I agree. I do think some of the protests are just to aggravate the other racer. As a person that has gone through numerous teardowns for free, I would be happy to get paid.

One thing of note here. NHRA is not supporting their own governance when it comes to teardown.

This lands squarely on the non racer bean counter mentality of NHRA leadership.

It is possible that we see a few more protests only because some competitors know NHRA will not impose teardown and the incentive to set records is greatly reduced.

I predict that NHRA won’t want to do protest teardowns either so they will suppress this with a rule change.

Soon, the only tech allowed by leadership will be akin to handing out parking tickets and fines In the staging lanes.

There is no succession planning for the tech crews at a divisional level when it comes to stock and Superstock. The capable crews they have are stifled by poor management at NHRA. On top of that, at some point they will retire with no trained replacements.

If we at least had the significant teardowns at Indy and some random teardown light events, there would be more compliance overall.

Re: Protests
 

Danny Byrd

Re: Protests
 

No, the rule. It specifically states the inspection is not limited to the protest. And there is a lot more to it, though there is also a lot missing (or that could be added for further clarity...like a specific form to use to file a competitor protest, who the proper authorities are, etc.), but as it reads it could have very well been very proper to the rule, as long as the protesting competitor was racing at the event (or the registered car owner, assuming meaning as listed on the tech card, who may or may not actually be at the event. They, the registered car owner, could be half way around the world, or an astronaut on the Space Station, but if thier vehicle is racing (competing), in the same Eliminator category (not necessarily in the same class), and the protest is timely filed (the day before elims. (Either class, or category elims.), along with the proper fee, and the protest is accepted (there is an exception if in the opinion of the proper authorities it is not being protested for a proper reason, or to gain a competitive advantage, the protest can be rejected).

I am not quoting the rule, just stating my reading of it. There is no mention of how that fee is paid, and you could go through the process, on either side and get zero back too.

Protested party must disassemble and reassemble (the engine), though at that point they can inspect the entire vehicle), and (then the Technical Dept. Costs are then deducted)...and the balance of the protest fee posted is returned to one of the parties or the other. (At that point I can imagine all kinds of scenarios if things got out of hand). You could pass, and flat out take too long to get it back together and still end up with none of the protest fee if things went sour.

There is no mention of specific parts like "the crank" as originally posted. The Competitor Protest Rule mentions vehicle, protest, in writing, and teardown of The Engine, and fee, and there are no posting of fees if random inspections or NHRA Tech wants it done.

There is definitely a lot of specificity in the rule, and there is a driver rep. on the rules committee representing the Category(s), so if it does not seem right, there is a process, follow the process, and submit proposed rule changes, but for fair and correct reasons.

All need to read the rule first. (They ran the inspection, and checked other things because the rule allows it).

The protest triggered the acceptance, the acceptance triggered the "go to the barn notification", which triggered the inspection, which triggered the teardown, measuring/weighing, further inspection, and the reassembly, and a decision was rendered.

Only those involved know all the nuts and bolts true facts of how it all went down or the why(s).

But, that is the current rule we all agree to, before entering to compete. (I now agree with the poster that said both parties should be required to be subject to the same conditions). Lol.

It would stop a lot of what some may think happened, but deeper pockets would just show up with a Top Fuel crew.

Re: Protests
 

Sry I wrote a book, but my prior post was what I would like to see, then read the rule as it was during Indy 2023, and looked at prior posts in the thread, and just based that latest on the rule as it exists, and it seems people just did what they were required to do by the rule.

Re: Protests
 

Just my thought. If I am posting the money, I am saying you are illegal. I want to watch everything and verify up close.

Re: Protests
 

That's not the way it works. Posting the money and saying that a Racer is illegal doesn't buy you the right to look at his stuff. The Tech inspectors are supposed to be arbitrary.

Re: Protests
 

Once again, Mr. Schaechter absolutely nails it, to the point where the "Like" button doesn't do it justice.

Re: Protests
 

I have been taken apart myself with nothing more than hand tools. My fastest tool was my spinner, now with electric impact tools taking a head off a car is a snap. I'm surprised that there aren't more tear downs since the process is so much faster with the improved tooling.
Just my look at it.
Casey Miles
248H Stock

Re: Protests
 

Yeah let the competition review all that you have, not…besides having money to protest doesn’t qualify a person to know anything about another’s legality

Re: Protests
 

When Mike Rice became Div. Dir. (Now has been promote) we had
a Drivers meet (About 10 years ago or so) where he told us he did not
want to entertain any protests from fellow racers.

I was surprised = I believe that now that has changed for the better
as I believe it is important.

Re: Protests
 

So then someone shouldnt have been camped out looking at our stuff after protesting then. And yes, it does. If I put up the dough, and you are bounced, I absolutely should know, and know why.

Re: Protests
 

SUPPOSED to be is correct.

Re: Protests
 

Tony,

No one should have been camped out on your space for sure.

You might be qualified, but having money doesn’t give the qualification to determine legality. Maybe you mean the right to view but I don’t agree that anyone but the tech team should see the protested Racecar.

If you really just want to know the outcome, that is a different ask altogether. I don’t know if tech says what the infraction is if there is one. Maybe the protester gets that on the spot? Of course they publish it at their leisure.

Re: Protests
 

Your $ doesn’t make you and expert
Tear down is not a peep show where you get to look at my stuff because you paid to pull my pants down
That’s what the officials are there for to enforce the tear down

Re: Protests
 

Both of you JAMES' are spot on! And Billy too.