« WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

From the Nevada National and including the In-N-Out burger National, It was very interesting to follow the SS/OA Wagon of Steel. Always fast in the first part of his runs (qualifying and elimination) until the "nose diving technic" around the 1000 feet mark.
All of the 660 feet speed was better than the quarter mile terminal speed.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Yeah ya know, in a day-and-age when we have mechanical critters scrambling around Mars and the Moon and other places, why do racers AND NHRA still deny that a car with a digital ignition box hooked to a grid hooked to a data logger can go a quarter mile in a pre-prescribed E.T.?

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Billy not saying that you couldn't do it but I don't see how without including other electronic devices. But if you or anyone else knows how please forward me that info. Or take Lukes classes and see how the good bracket racers do it. BP

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Both were holding. One more than the other. One was scrubbing e.t. better than the other. The wagon was just giving Cotton a different look than he was expecting.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I'm going to assume , after Troy's Jegs win, NHRA might have asked him how he was doing what he was doing. Could be as simple as watching the tach or shift light and lifting all the way off the gas.
Would a slower car be more consistent without powering it all the way to the 1320? Maybe so.
Anyway, as of now, I' d worry more about the factory cars running dead on @ 140 mph.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

With all the technology today. Heaven forbid if you have any skills. Many years ago I watch Randy Goff, a comp racer here in division 7. He won the division 7 points championship spot racing (not one electronic near the car) in Super Comp with his 67 Nova.

Paul Haszlauer

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

The only issue with that, is the "ARC Module" that would make this technically possible with a grid, is already in the list of unapproved MSD products for NHRA competition. That being said, is it possible for someone to do this with something homemade? Probably. Boy this takes me back, well, not me specifically being that It was about 7 years before I was born, but reminds me of a certain race at Moroso Motorsports Park in 1996 or so.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Ya know, I seem to remember "bonding" with a certain high ranking NHRA employee over reminiscing about being at a Moroso race and an incident occuring involving some kind of a reputed down-track timer. And that was how many years ago? Certainly racers have perfected that technology and learned how to hide it by now! ;-)

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I did this back in my bracket racing days with NOS.
Hit it early & put a lot of distance between the cars.
Let that really fast car take the stripe while I was hard on the brakes.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I can't even imagine the electronic shenanigans involved in some of those big buck bracket races where tech is really loose. At least dumping at the top end is not as visible to the occasional fan as the throttle stop crap that populates the .90 classes. Sorry but they are not entertaining to watch.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

looks pretty simple to me, he takes his foot of the gas at the 1000, or a spot he wants to use. not subscribing to any conspiracy personally

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I know a guy who used to switch on cruise control at the 1/8 mile.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Billy -- could you send me wiring diagram for that ?? I must be using the wrong inputs . 😊 Thanks

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

ya know--Troy is a hell of a driver - he goes rounds, has driven the same car for how many years, [ he knows his car ]. all his runs from Dallas and the Jegs race are the same ,,same as Pomona slower mph at the finish than 1/8 th. --- ya know -- you throw a brick , it loose velocity real quick !!! c

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Spot drop, hit of NOS, whomping, braking hard, backing in to, hit the button, hold a bunch, give a different picture, decal on the car, 90 degree look, triangle, counters, grids, a friend in the stands, Starlink, light sensor, and on and on.

When you realize that a blinder at the finish line would help.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Its called a "spot drop" you drive to a pre determined point (this case 1000') you either just let up and coast.. or let up and apply the break pedal like if you were in the shut down.. Us guys that bracket race see it and use it.. Never that early but it is pretty impressive.. Cudos to him for changing it up.. he has everyone tore up over it.. and probably has some competitors beat prior to even staging because of what he is doing lol

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I do this all the time if I am bracket racing and have a bye. Lift at the 1000' (or 330' for 1/8 mile) and put it dead-on, just to show everyone that I can. It's not sorcery.

With Troy being in a slow car for the class, almost any opponent has the ability to come up and throw a wheel on him. He's found a way to take that away by being so extremely slow and further decelerating when the other cars are charging. That's creative thinking and it's obviously working!

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

It's really nice of everyone to discuss his tactics here so his future opponents know what to expect. LOL This is just normal bracket racing stuff.



I have always believed that it would benefit many class racers to bracket race when they aren't racing their class car just to get used to things like this.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I used to think this also, and would see some good class racers doing just that. But if you have a hard running car, there are a lot of parts with limited life spans. The cost per run gets pretty high. So I understand why many would not want to do it.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Not subscribing or unsubscribing to conspiracy theories....however, I would like some opinions on this.

WIth a grid, you can set a safety RPM limit to come on at a pre-determined time after a trigger point. For instance in my super class cars, I have this set at 12 seconds after the trigger point (transbrake released). It is set at 12 seconds, as this is SC and SG cars therefore it will be in shutdown. This is in case there is an issue in the shutdown area, the ignition box will only allow the engine to go to 3000 rpm in my cars case.

If you were to set this at 9 seconds (on an 11 second car), would this be considered a downtrack rev limiter or is this a safety switch?

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

That's an illegal downtrack rev limiter, IMO.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Downtrack rev limiter would be my guess.

The last race I was with Mike Jeffrey at Tri-State he had not changed rear gears from Denver. He didn't think it would leg through, but 1st qualifier he went .99X under. He decided to run to the 1000 foot mark and let off. He made it 4 rounds that way and avoided a hit. It wasn't scrubbing a whole lot of ET off either.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

In 2020 at the bracket finals I qualified for sportsman class but didn't have a competitive car that ran 12.00 or slower at the time. I decided to race my pro car (since I was footbraking and hand shifting anyways) and simply lift at the 1/8th mile cone as if I were racing to there. I ended up making the final round before choosing to give up the stripe instead of taking it.

Car ran consistently driving that way based on what the 1/8th mile times were. 12.45 at 72 MPH isn't what several of the other drivers were expecting...especially the ones dialed around 12.90 and I'd go flying past them before 330' and then they'd start catching me quickly after I performed my spot drop.

I personally prescribe to this simply being a different strategy and not a situation of cheating. While I'm sure there is a way a person could cheat doing something like this I know it is possible to do it competitively from my personal experience.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

1000' lift and coast doesn't kill near as much as some would think. It all depends on momentum and whatnot but I've found in some of my bracket cars it can be as little as .15 or as much as .30 depending on speed and weight and conditions.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Not hard to do legally...bitd 80's IHRA super stock, we had to dial either index or record and in bad air i just flat could not run the record. SOooo i would pick 1 telephone pole to run to and go to neutral and back into the index. Worked sometimes lol !

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Can't speak for other combos but letting off the throttle and not hitting the brakes doesn't really kill a lot of MPH in my car.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Maybe its time to lower the indexes 3 tenths. No make it 4.
It's just a suggestion a friend made!

Steve Teeter B/SA 620.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Ya know, why don't we just go back to the old way of "running off the National Record"! Watch your complaints pick up and your car counts drop.
I'll just bring my "junk" back to where I found it and freshen up something in the garage. I'll be racing, will you?
Please ask "your friend" about my suggestion, would you?

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I did Billy, he suggested that ALL the National events should be open to All Stock Eliminator cars.
Top 65 Qualifers race, 66 and higher go home ( except Indy then 128). He thinks thats what the Divisonal races are for , work on your stuff so you can Qualify for a National Event.
Many may not agree but it's suppose to be a performance based class is it not?

Steve Teetet B/SA 620

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I kinda like the way your "friend" thinks!

However, I don't feel that the indexes should be lowered. I also don't want to go back to the old "run off the record" days. It would hurt Racer participation too much.
I would like to see more tech, more teardowns and more adherence to the rules as written. Also stepping back a few years regarding rules which have been "liberalized" in order to make tech more able to be enforced by fewer and less knowledgeable inspectors.

Maybe NHRA should come up with a "rule" regarding E.T.s VS. trap speeds.
For example, if your "friend" has a mid-10 second car and is suddenly going 100-105 MPH then he's DQd.
I mean after all, high-speed braking is a "safety issue" right? ;-)

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I personally like your suggestion as to some % of MPH a competitor must run to have made a legal run. I would guess there would be a some difficulty coming up with a percentage.
I will start. 10%

Steve

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I was expecting it. Lol. Just didn't do a good enough job.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I can tell you for a fact Billy that we never would have started the SLOBALT build if the indexes were 3 or 4 tenths faster. I don't like the idea of a 10% rule either for DQ'ing based on running a certain MPH or whatever. There's too many chances for illegitimate DQ's there.

Opponent messed up and high gear went out in my trans. I get the W but tech comes up and tells me since I pushed in the clutch due to my parts failure I lost the round? I was just jacking my car up to put in my spare transmission to make the call for 3rd round which will be run after the pros are done for the day...but now my opponent who lets say broke out gets to go run r3 instead because of my MPH being down.

No matter what, the MPH rule doesn't sit right with me. But in my scenario above...it would really not sit well with me!

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Ellis, I'm not the one who threw out that 10% number.
BUT, when was the last time that a Racer was DQ.d for excessive braking? We have Racers coming on here all of the time complaining that S/SS are no longer "performance" based Eliminators and yet these same Racers are OK with "spot", "shift light", "RPM" or "time related" down-track dropping.
NHRA feels that it's a "safety" issue for my slow, V8 Stocker to not have an SFI flexplate in it. To not have one could kill or injure the Racer "in the other lane" (or a spectator).
BUT, a Racer in a 120+ to160+ MPH car can "play finish-line-games" with your 70 MPH car "in the other lane" and nothing can happen?!?

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Who is killing 20+ MPH more safely than Troy? Perhaps lifting at the 1000' should be the new rule.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

What ever happened to " Top Stock and Jr. Stock"? Condense the number of classes by a weight break change.
Three or four heads up class groupings with similar ET's and Speeds together, all heads up runs.
Then the eliminator winners race
In a dial race as we currently do.
This would get us back to what Drag racing was originally about.

Steve Teeter Stk B/SA 620

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I did some calculations which are all theoretical (never had any real data to double check them), using a WAG on some vehicle things like CD and frontal area. I can see this run using no brakes and just coasting from about 825 feet.

Stan

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Billy, I do know it wasn't your suggestion...I was just replying to you because you've been on the same side of the 3 tenths argument as me and your back and forth banter was what led to the 10% suggestion.

I've seen several warnings issued for excessive braking in D3 since I've been doing this...but I do not recall the last DQ for it.

As for the "finish line games" I know each time I get into my vehicle what could happen. I accept that risk any time I strap in and fire it up. That's just my take on it though.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

I would much rather race a guy who coasts from 1000 feet to the finish line, than one who runs to the first speed cone and jams the brakes. It may not show from the vehicle that I've been running recently, but I'll take the faster car advantage any day. More power to him for being able to win with this strategy.

Re: « WAGON OF STEEL » 1000 feet nose diving technic.
 

Ellis, I feel exactly the same way. This is automobile racing not checkers. What has always made me a little "edgy" about "finish line games" is what will the NHRA do knowing of it's knee-jerk reactions to situations if/when (heaven forbid) there IS an incident involving a 70 MPH car and a 160 MPH car? Will all competitors suddenly need rollcages, harnesses and suits in order to compete?