Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

I was just thinking if I was 25 again and I had a newer Camaro with a V6 how could I race it in Stock Eliminator? So I went to the classification guide and it shows the COPO's but none of the V6's in Gen5 or Gen6. These V6's are around 300 HP! Am I missing something? If someone wanted to race one of these Camaros how would they do it? Or more importantly how could Billy do it?
Are the newer Chrysler and Ford V6's in the same situation?

Happy Thanksgiving! Ray

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

A racer would need to contact the manufacturer and request the specifications be sent to NHRA. If there is interest in a combination it could make it in the guide. If it’s not in the guide, the car doesn’t exist.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Thanks Dyno. I am in a unique situation being that I work for GM so I will contact Chevrolet. I hope by Mopar and Ford buddies will do the same with their V6's. To me this is one of the most obvious on ramps of a young person to Stock Eliminator. Happy Thanksgiving! Ray

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

When the 10k was offered for AA/S I started looking for cars to fit the class. After a few phone calls I decided a 5.3 Shelby would fit nicely. Problem, the cars not in the guide. I contacted NHRA and found out that the manufacturer never submitted the specifications to NHRA and that is the reason some cars are not in the guide.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Thanks Larry. Seems to me there is nothing to loose to get the manufacturers to submit the specs. If that Shelby was submitted you would be building a car right now. I would suggest we as a community try to get specs for all cars submitted to NHRA.
While I am at it are there other Chevrolets that are not in the guide that I should request? Ray

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Ray,

You have a PM.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Ya know, where would S/SS be today if back in the "old days" the manufacturers and NHRA would have supported only their top shelf, High Performance/ Race packages?
There wouldn't BE a S/SS today.
There were WAY more 283/220 Biscaynes built than 427/425 ones and I have to wonder what the ratio of 350/255s to 396/375s might be?
I know that it will never happen but it would be nice if a "forward-thinking" NHRA official or two would try and put together an affordable (for lack of a better term) Junior Stock program using the Under Classmen of Stock. Maybe N/S and down and the FWD stuff (you know, the "cheap" stuff) which, if supported correctly, could become the now nonexistent "entry level" class.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

The Camaro 4 cyl. Turbo & Chevy SSR LS2 motor maybe some others

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

I think that the four cylinder would be a great combination. I got really close to building one before Jamie Meyer left Chevrolet Performance.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

As you say, never happen.

NHRA seems to be obsessed with the back door , non- showroom late models.

New style Camaros and such appear in Stock, Super Stock, Comp, Showdown, now in "X" , Pro Stock..

Some of these cars are even slated to be discontinued, but they don't seem to care.
By no means are any of these combos considered entry level.

Conspiracy theory here..The more expensive these classes become, the more they can charge for entries, meanwhile doing away with contingency award money.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

The manufacturers have TOTAL control over which combinations are submitted. There are definitely some negotiations over the specifications that are submitted. But, that is the extent of it.

All of your theories on the NHRA in regards to this matter are just not true (from my experience).

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Mark, I'm not real sure that it's the NHRA having a say on this. I don't believe that NHRA much cares whose or what cars are going down their tracks as long as they are paying to get in. It would almost seem to be counter-productive to limit the number of makes and combos they allow. At the same time, I can't imagine the manufacturers NOT wanting to see their (few remaining) cars and SUVs going up-and-down tracks in competition of any kind.
I've found as I'm sure that you have too that when my Cavalier comes in the lanes, almost all of the younger kids flock to my butt ugly, 4 door "race" car! Why IMHO? Because they can somewhat relate to it.
I do know that the NHRA and the manufacturers have to find a way to keep kids interested in this sport or it's going to go away eventually.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Unless you have an older car to start with, it is way less expensive to start with a newer car. If you can stand a little mud, there are thousands of flood cars for sale. In most cases, the builder will be removing all the wiring, emission equipment, etc., but you will be starting with a rust free body. You will be time and money ahead.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Paul Wong has been working to specs on a 2009- Dodge Challenger V6. Seems to be a lot of work.

Paul Haszlauer

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Try and google specs on a new Dodge V6. Very little as far as the engine. You'll find the factory horsepower rating, displacements specs and maybe compression spec. There is nothing to be found on Camshaft size, rocker ratios and how the compression number is formed. If you were to look at 5 on line threads from enthusiast. You would get 10 different answers on the correct specs.On your point there are folks that like V6 combos.

Paul H.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Gump, Billy

Why do you suppose they keep creating classes for the factory cars?
Do you think that it's because the faster et's , the better chance people might stay in the stands to watch them?
That brings me back to them having no interest in Jr.Stock or entry level cars.
They wouldn't even add one FWD class, without deleting another one.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

I am going to ASSume that these classes are being "pushed" by the manufacturers and chassis/engine builders and IMHO this Factory X deal is dead already.
The people who "might stay in the stands" would likely be far more intrigued and entertained by watching Daren and I face off in eliminations then watching two identical "on-the-edge" cars go at it and see which one loses traction first.
I am again going to ASSume that the FWD "thing" was influenced by one Racer's phone call to one Tech who was/is uninformed because the FWD Racers don't call NHRA. If the FWD Racers organized a "call-in campaign" that could/would get changed.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

The manufacturers have submitted faster combinations. With today's technology they have evolved.

The FS/ classes were created because of all the crying....

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Which department of today's manufactures actually submits the specs. The "manufacture" use to submit 4drs, stationwagons, trim coded cars, with every engine the manufacture had available. It appears now by NHRA books. The only vehicle Chrysler makes is a Challenger with a Hemi.

Paul H

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Which department submits specs? The Department of REVENUE of course. It is all about money.

All 3 manufacturers submit only the cars they want you to race: brand new COPO Camaros, Cobra Jet Mustangs, and Drag Pak Challengers.

They don't see any benefit to themselves putting station wagons or anything else in the guide. Go look in Dwight's Class Racer Info database and I don't think you will find any cars except those I listed above after 2008.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Actually you have in the guide for stock car classification, the 2011 to 2014 Ford Mustang coupe with a V6 and the 2015 with a 4 Cylinders turbo.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Or maybe FS classes cause of the ridiculous soft/bogus HP factors "negotiated" by the manufactors. Not to mention the the fairy tale shipping weights.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Since when was that a new thing? I'll use the 396/375 HP Camaros as my first example.


This has been addressed over and over. First the zero option cars are nowhere near as heavy as YOU would like. Second, there had to be some kind of adjustment made due to all of the federally mandated parts that it is now legal to remove. Things that weren't even imagined in the sixties. You simply can't legally add enough ballast.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

As I remember it, the AMA (Automobile Manufacturers of America) required each make to submit detailed specifications of every car they built. The NHRA got that info from them and that's where the detailed engine specs, weight, etc. came from.

By this time in my life, I run into hazy memory at times but I seem to remember that when the imports gained a big chunk of production, the AMA ceased to exist - because of the "American" in their name now only produced only part of production instead of all of it. Then again, maybe they still exist and dropped the requirement for documentation.

I'm sure you remember it wasn't always that the manufacturers had to apply to the NHRA. Only when it was after the start of model year production (Cobra Jet, etc) and that year's book had already been received in Glendora.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Sure. Start with comparing that 572 Copo specs to the 396 375?

1st gen Camaro just went through a review of their shipping weights a couple years ago.

Not sure why newer cars Shipping weights can't be revised to a more realistic curb weight like they came.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Dude, the 572 is the wrong choice. Pick something else...

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

I would say you're spot on Dan. Now a days the performance part of the manufactures is the only input to NHRA and specs.

Paul

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

For the newer cars of all makes and models, if you could start as a “Body in white”, or my reference to a flood car, this would be the close equivalent of an older Camaro, Mustang, Duster, Firebird etc. as the starting point of a new race car build. Off of this a honest shipping weight could be determined as to where the car should be classified. The mandated equipment on the newer cars adds hundreds of pounds of weight which can be removed and does nothing to add to the performance of the vehicle. This is what the manufacturer’s and NHRA need to do to keep this ball rolling and to allow racers to build the newer cars so people can more identify with something they themselves may have in the parking lot or in the garage at home.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Since you singled out the 396/375 Chevy, curious why he needs to "pick something else"?
Could it be that even a COPO racer believes that a 580 plus cubic inch engine, with almost 14.1 compression, .731" solid roller cam, 2.25" intake valves, with 340 cc intake runners, may be rated "a bit soft" for a 9.90 index at 3170 pounds?

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Of all the factory cars the 572, as delivered, is the least competitive combination. I'm not saying that if I throw a bunch of money at it that it couldn't be made better. I really don't think that it will ever run like Jim B's 396 car.

When I first ordered it, I was told that it was going in the guide at 450 HP. That would have been much more competitive.

But, I didn't buy mine to dominate the qualifying sheets. I had the opportunity to get the first one built. That makes it the first Big Block COPO built since 1969 and I'm thinking the first Big Block Camaro since 1972. Even though it is serial number 004 it was built weeks before the 001 car. The chassis number is F001.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

As delivered that 375hp 396 Camaro ran high 13's. Some racers have found a few tricks to get a bit quicker ET's...

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

I had a 2013 3.7 V6 Mustang, and it ran 13.80s with just a tuner. Stock 3.33 gear and 6R80. I think it was roughly 3650lbs with me in it. (stock trim with heavy 19" wheels)

That combination is a natural N/SA at 3505 with driver. 13.00 index.

With headers, trans, converter, gear, and better tune, you'd be in the ball park of a little under.

Like one said, you can scoop these cars up cheap as flood cars or just worn out used. Possible dime rocket potential since there's plenty of aftermarket available for them you can get used, and it's nice these have the 8.8 already under them.

Decent compression ratio allowed as well. 12.48:1

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Thanks for the information Charles. It is good that V6's are covered for these years.

BUT, Blue Oval fans! There is nothing in the classification guide to cover any Ford car after 2019!! You guys need to be contacting Ford to get your specs to NHRA. Even the years between 2015 and 2019 stink. You are all set if you want to race a Focus but NOTHING ELSE is there. I hope someone steps up to get these specs to NHRA.
Merry Christmas, Ray

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

You will find here a old post from JHeath regarding Steve Stickel M/SA 2011 Mustang. (Index is 12,85)

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

Very Nice! I'll check it out

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

I've had a similar thought about some new combinations not listed. The camaro has the 2010 SS with the 376 @ 400hp listed. Since 2010-2013 were identical bodies someone could claim any of these years to be a 2010, but they do not have the convertibles in the class guide. The 2010 automatic SS coupe is listed as a shipping weight of 3,780lbs, a convertible would be 4,120lbs putting it into completely different classes. They would just have to add it as a 2011, 2012, or 2013, the engine specs would be identical to the 2010 coupe already in the class guide, they would just need the shipping weight info. They have a 2012 copo convertible in the class guide, but not an ss convertible anywhere.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

As far as the 3.7 ford engine, it's dohc/4v/alum head and block. From the factory, in a 2011 f-150, it shifts (from the factory) at 7000rpm. This is an awesome engine, can't believe it's the "base" to replace the 300 six!

Here is me racing it, put it in drive, let it shift itself.
(spoiler, I won!)
https://youtu.be/j2v1LkIxgLc?si=K_KWEk51OvBhARvr

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

In 2010 I purchased a BIW Camaro from Chevrolet. I forget who the engineer was that they put me with, but he wanted zero input from me. So, what I got was a combination that is not correct and nobody has built to date. I can tell you for a fact that a zero option Gen 5 Camaro SS is not that heavy. The head CC is also wrong.

I spoke with Chevrolet about convertibles on several occasions and was told flat out that they did not want to add them. The same goes for the 2014-15 Z28 and later Corvettes.

Re: Car classification guide Gen5 and Gen6 Camaro
 

That’s a shame, I have a 2012 convertible and have toyed with the idea of building it into a stocker and running my COPO in superstock, didn’t think it’d be that hard to get it added to the guide since all the engine specs are there already for the coupe, they literally would just have to give them the shipping weight