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GUMP 11-23-2023 10:13 AM

Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Since Bobby's thread has gone way off topic, I thought that I would start a new one on the role of Jr's in NHRA competition.

My opinion is that there are no negatives. The Junior program is a great educational opportunity. It brings families together. It also adds a little income for the hosting facility.

These kids are the future. Sure, a good percentage will move on to something else. On the other hand, we have quite a few kids that came from Jr's racing with us in Stockers in Division 2.

I will add that six of this year's Champions came from Jr's.

Ok stocker 11-23-2023 10:42 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
I could not agree more. I had two kids in juniors and we had great family fun. Travelled a lot as a family and it keeps your kids excited about racing and away from many bad influences.

ZenzenRacing 11-23-2023 11:07 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
That was a ton of fun, both kids in Jr's! We went thru 4 cars and they both went into S & SS! I'd do it all over yet today!

HR9121 11-23-2023 08:37 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Anyone that can't see the value the Jr's bring to our sport or the future of our sport is being just plain selfish. It's kind of like some of the people that complain about the .90 classes, if you can't see that there is value in the other classes your just living in your own little self centered world.
You should be commended also Daren for your support of several Jr racers also it doesn't go unnoticed even though I know that's not what it's about to you. Yes some of these kids will move on to something else but every one that keeps going is vital to the future of our sport.

MoJo Risen 11-26-2023 10:57 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
I can see the huge out pouring of Junior Dragter support here on clasracer... Congratulations Gump!

It's great to see at divisions because it really
Shows off the most basic form of "karting". I think it's special that we offer a place for the less fortunate children to show they too can have a place to strut their stuff.

I also like that it gives me more time at the track while they take their time to get staged and do mock burn outs to simulate warming up their tires as I reflect at the whole existential crisis of todays world of drag racing and where it has been and what it now has become.

At my local track they even went a step further and brought a "KIDS POWER WHEELS" class into to schedule. I'm so excited!
Class rules are as follows.
5 volts to 40 volt battery allowed.
Helmet required, Bicycle helmet is okay.
Gloves, long sleeve shirt, closed toes shoes, knee pads, elbow pads.
.500 sportman tree.
10 DOLLAR ENTRY FEE WINNER TAKES ALL
Unfortunately this class will not run the full 1/4 mile. :-(

I will start lobbying for all these under age classes to start running a full quarter mile because they deserve the whole track and not just the 1/8 mile.

Meanwhile in real Karting world of 7 year olds..

https://youtu.be/N7OzIkuUVrw?feature=shared

Charles Stewart 11-26-2023 02:33 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Mojo Risen,
Your post make me thinking of a JR Dragster school summer camp like the Frank Hawley's school for one or two weeks including school class, track time, eating and sleeping at the track. This could be a good way to invest in the future of the sport.

James Perrone 11-26-2023 06:05 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Careful what you wish for
In division 1 we get a bunch and it adds quite a bit of time to the program

1320racer 11-26-2023 06:54 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
exactly!

As was stated in the "make divisionals great again" thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 688932)
My complaint with running Juniors at Divisionals is the same as running Summit ET/local bracket cars and other eliminators such as WW Williams .90 eliminators, they take runs away from traditions classes. This stretches the event out an extra day, reduces qualifying runs and forces the eliminator to start on Saturday. Less runs for increased costs, not to mention getting pushed out to less desirable pit areas.

Most class racers feel the same. The only ones that don't is those that had or have a child or grandchildren competing in juniors.

GUMP 11-27-2023 11:23 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Perrone (Post 689241)
Careful what you wish for
In division 1 we get a bunch and it adds quite a bit of time to the program

I can't speak for other Divisions, but in Division 2 we have a very well run program. I will often go up and watch them run.

As I don't manage the Division, I can't speak for the time that they take up. I do know that our Division Director is "All about the schedule". So, I doubt that he would put up with a lot of delays from them. From what I see, they go up when called and make their passes in an organized and timely manner. Super Street is the same. Stock Eliminator is another story. Especially when pairing for round one...

Again, I don't see them as anything but a positive. "I don't like them" is not a valid argument.

Bandit 1 11-27-2023 12:25 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Think they work well in some divisions, but others might be a challenge. Some events in D3 can be over 600 on the regular and was over 700 for the Double at WWT Raceway. I am all for opportunities to welcome in the next generation along with families getting to compete at the same events.

Not sure it's the best idea for all Divisions but should be considered after all the factors are looked at. Now if all events were 2 hits, then race, sure it would work with larger counts. Again, so many factors or directions to go. No wrong or right way to handle in my uneducated opinion.

Dan Bennett 11-27-2023 02:09 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Yes, it's something very different and takes up time and pit space.

But it seems pretty ironic to me that we're arguing about how to gain more new racers at the same time.

Check out how many standouts in the top racing series (like F1) started out in karts. It's a bit differnent because it's a different series and venues. But it's still a big shot in the arm for gaining more participants as they age into higher forms of racing.

I got into the professional side of drag racing through Pro Stock. And though the early hype was sometimes unsufferable, I'll point out that one of the best drivers I've ever seen (still trying to decide if she is better than Jeg was) went from juniors all the way to being on the edge of setting records for championships.

dragracerray 11-27-2023 02:51 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
But it seems pretty ironic to me that we're arguing about how to gain more new racers at the same time.

Don't we all "look up" to the next class?
-when I had a street car I looked up to a dedicated race car
-when I had a bracket car I looked up to S/ST
-when I had a S/ST car I looked up to Super Stock
-when I had a SS car I looked up to Stock (now I am in trouble)
-I have always looked up to Pro Stock, probably won't get there

Who do you think the Juniors look up to? ALL of us. I would hate to see Juniors racing outside our community. We need to support them, nurture them and become their friends!
Merry Christmas,
Ray

DG 11-27-2023 02:58 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
I think its safe to assume most everyone agrees Junior dragsters are good for the sport. Its important to realize they have their own Junior dragster racing series apart from our series. The question is should they also run at Divisional races.

cgall 11-27-2023 03:35 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
No, they take up too much time. When Juniors are running, no cars are allowed to be going to the lanes. They are not allowed to drive back to the pits, they have to be towed. Some of their rigs are of pro racer size.

There are more than enough local, regional and finals Junior races to keep teams busy all season.

dragracerray 11-27-2023 04:24 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cgall (Post 689269)
No, they take up too much time. When Juniors are running, no cars are allowed to be going to the lanes. They are not allowed to drive back to the pits, they have to be towed. Some of their rigs are of pro racer size.

There are more than enough local, regional and finals Junior races to keep teams busy all season.

I disagree. Juniors on the local scene will be exposed to bracket racing. If we want more NHRA Sportsmen racers we need the Juniors in our arena looking up to Sportsmen racing instead of bracket racing.
Merry Christmas,
Ray

Charley Downing 11-27-2023 05:01 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Gump
While it would be nice for the kids to run Jr dragsters at div events, most divisional races already have 10 lbs of ***** crammed in a 5 lbs sack. Heck I quit running most D3 events or leave early because we struggle to finish races before Monday. Now in D2,D5 and D6 you could get away with it because of the lack of total car count at almost all those Divisional events. Its a lack of time issue more then anything else.

HR9121 11-28-2023 12:30 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
I can't say I'm surprised by some of the responses and some of them I get. We spend a tremendous amount of time sitting around at divisional races as it is but with that said are we more concerned with a little bit of extra time or the longevity of our sport? Time wise I don't see where it takes any longer for Jr's as say Super Comp or TD, by the time these guys do their burnout, backup, play with their box or whatever some do and decide to stage it can seem like an eternity, same goes for some other people in other classes as well. As I see it it keeps these kids involved in racing and doing something with their family and keeps them from doing God knows what these days. Some people complaining about how long it takes to run them and they just want to get the race finished so they can get home but they will line up on a Tuesday and sit in a field for 3 days before a national event doesn't make much sense to me.....

1320racer 11-28-2023 01:48 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
it's not the time at all unless the scheduled is being shortened due to weather or other factors. It's the fact that most racers don't want them there because they believe these events are big boy races and not for kids and remember, they only somewhat recently started competing at these events. Juniors have their own Divisional or bracket finals and they have their own National event(s) two.

Lenny5160_v2 11-28-2023 09:59 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
I can see both sides of this. When my kids were racing juniors, I had to go racing a bunch more weekends at local events if I wanted my kids to get track time. Juniors at divisional events would mean we all race together and could spend a few more weekends at home.

However, we were able to all run at our local D5 event a couple times, and with my two cars and the two juniors, with how the run order fell, was a complete clown show. I like the divisional events to be 'me time' where I can focus on my program and maybe even relax a little bit.

dragracerray 11-28-2023 10:47 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 689297)
Juniors have their own Divisional or bracket finals and they have their own National event(s) two.

So 1320 if I am consistent with your logic Sportsmen competitors should not be allowed into National events. Are you ok with that?

Juniors not allowed at Divisional
Sportsman not allowed at Nationals

I have never been to a National event as a Sportsmen racer but I hope to soon.
Merry Christmas, Ray

1320racer 11-28-2023 10:57 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
What part of the truth and the facts don’t you like? That said, National events are great as long as you remember why the NHRA allows you to compete at them.

HR9121 11-28-2023 12:10 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 689297)
it's not the time at all unless the scheduled is being shortened due to weather or other factors. It's the fact that most racers don't want them there because they believe these events are big boy races and not for kids and remember, they only somewhat recently started competing at these events. Juniors have their own Divisional or bracket finals and they have their own National event(s) two.

So it's basically the same argument we already have like most Stock/SS racers think .90 racing is stupid and boring, or what's TD and TS nothing but bracket racing here for? I just see racing, enjoy watching it all and it all belongs.
The Jr programs are basically non-existent in my area so for my kids this is basically all they are going to get. Typical bracket races around here will have 1 or 2 Jr's show up. I will agree that maybe up in division 1 and 3 with the large car counts it is hard to get all of it done in a timely manner but do we sacrifice some future racers in the name of finishing a race a couple hours earlier. Here in Division 2 I think the tracks need them to help make viable to hold a race when you have 25 or 30 show up on a regular basis which is more cars than Super Street typically draws.

BZenzen 11-28-2023 12:14 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Jumping in here as a former JR Driver, and soon to be JR Dragster parent.

Regardless of the venue, take a look at the future of Drag Racing, S/SS specifically. We should be promoting as many ways as possible for these kids and families to get to the track and see different classes and competitors. If you haven't noticed, the influx of young class racers seems to be getting smaller and smaller.

As far as the run schedule, typically JRs are the last priority when it comes to qualifying/eliminations and we were always ok with that.

1320racer 11-28-2023 12:33 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HR9121 (Post 689307)
So it's basically the same argument we already have like most Stock/SS racers think .90 racing is stupid and boring, or what's TD and TS nothing but bracket racing here for?

EXACTLY and to be honest all this bitching comes from the stock/super stock racers because they believe what they do is special, that they're better than all the rest of the racers/classes.

Jason Shepard 11-28-2023 01:05 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HR9121 (Post 689307)
I just see racing, enjoy watching it all and it all belongs.
.


More of this please.

J.R. Haddad 11-28-2023 01:47 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
I have never minded the Juniors at all. The kids are so exited when they are getting in their cars, it reminds me of being 16 again. We should do everything possible to promote them, and all other classes every chance we
have. In Div. 5. I generally see them run very early morning, and they can have that shift every time they want from my point of view. Or I see them run early evening at Beer O'clock, another sacred time slot that they can lay ownership to. I don't have any magic formulas, but my accountant says more is better. Let's do everything we can do to make sure everyone is comfortable and wants to return, and return, and return.............

J.R.

HR9121 11-28-2023 03:05 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Where's the great soothsayer Bubski to address this situation when we need him?

James Perrone 11-28-2023 03:14 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Wait till you get 30 plus jrs
Then you will think differently they take up a lot of time when you get bunch
Effect the schedule you will see
Also wait till a jr shows up next to you on there race day
For some reason they gotta start em up and rev em up at like 8 am
Loud like import cars. Enjoy

1320racer 11-28-2023 04:19 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
James Perrone…KNOWS! :D

Mike Pearson 11-28-2023 05:34 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 689309)
EXACTLY and to be honest all this bitching comes from the stock/super stock racers because they believe what they do is special, that they're better than all the rest of the racers/classes.

This is not true at all. The difference between the comp, stock and super stock racers is the division races national opens and national events are our only venues to race. All of the other classes can and do bracket race on a local level. That’s why we get up in arms when a new class of cars invade what was our domain at one time. I have been racing in modified and super stock for about 45 years. There was no such thing as the .90 classes, jr dragsters or the top cars at our division races when I started racing. I was 18 years old and raced in C/S.M. high winding aluminum rod small block with a 4 speed.

1320racer 11-28-2023 05:54 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
It is true and when you make this statement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson (Post 689327)
we get up in arms when a new class of cars invade what was our domain at one time. I have been racing in modified and super stock for about 45 years. There was no such thing as the .90 classes, jr dragsters or the top cars at our division races when I started racing.

you prove my point and demonstrate how many stock/super stock racers feel. Thanks for being honest.;) That said, S/SS racers can bracket race too but many choose not too because they feel bracket racing is beneath them but the truth is every round they race IS a bracket race until paired on the ladder with a same class car, a pairing everybody plays the ladder game during qualifying to avoid in the early rounds.

Mike Pearson 11-28-2023 07:48 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 689328)
It is true and when you make this statement



you prove my point and demonstrate how many stock/super stock racers feel. Thanks for being honest.;) That said, S/SS racers can bracket race too but many choose not too because they feel bracket racing is beneath them but the truth is every round they race IS a bracket race until paired on the ladder with a same class car, a pairing everybody plays the ladder game during qualifying to avoid in the early rounds.


I guess we could but our cars are not built like a true bracket car that races every weekend. Our cars are purpose built to run our classes. Lots of gear and very high rpm. I guess you could bracket race a pro stock or top fuel too in your way of thinking.

Mike Volkman 11-28-2023 07:58 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
And the difference is....a class racer looks forward to that heads up race...even if your car is slower, which brings up the whole AHFS issue which I'm not bringing up. Has nothing to do with anyone being above or below. We long for the heads up competition. If it were up to me I'd eliminate about half of the classes.

2nd point....If you guys could/would see the appreciation the kids have from when we sponsored them this year in D2 you probably have a change of heart. We handed them hats, a trailer check and you would of thought we gave them the world. Also paying the division Jr Dragster champs in each of the 3 categories a $1,000 payout. Talk to one of the jr's running around with the event winner and runner up hats and see what they think.

Funny thinking about it, the same reaction was received when the stockers and super stocks got the Top Qualifier awards.

Volkman
SDS, Inc.

Bobby Fazio 11-28-2023 08:26 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HR9121 (Post 689318)
Where's the great soothsayer Bubski to address this situation when we need him?

We should have him (or her) on a podcast in a hidden identity silhouette interview.

Mark Yacavone 11-28-2023 09:34 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fazio (Post 689335)
We should have him (or her) on a podcast in a hidden identity silhouette interview.

Why?
Experience= knowledge= credibility
Without these three, it's just blather
No thanks

HR9121 11-28-2023 10:22 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fazio (Post 689335)
We should have him (or her) on a podcast in a hidden identity silhouette interview.

Bobby me thinks it might just be your best interview ever lol

Nick Heath 11-29-2023 10:44 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fazio (Post 689335)
We should have him (or her) on a podcast in a hidden identity silhouette interview.

Complete with the voice distorter like on the true crime TV documentaries, right?

Lenny5160_v2 11-29-2023 11:34 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson (Post 689327)
This is not true at all. The difference between the comp, stock and super stock racers is the division races national opens and national events are our only venues to race. All of the other classes can and do bracket race on a local level.

You say this while giving no thought to the possibility that a car set up ideally for the .90 classes is not the same as an ideal bracket setup for the same car.

Ed's assessment of the mentality of many S/SS racers toward the other classes (many; not all) is spot-on.

Steve Stasko 11-29-2023 11:58 AM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson (Post 689333)
I guess we could but our cars are not built like a true bracket car that races every weekend. Our cars are purpose built to run our classes. Lots of gear and very high rpm. I guess you could bracket race a pro stock or top fuel too in your way of thinking.

The top 10 points earners in S/SS last year ran more races than a regular local bracket racer did for points. The average in the National Top 10 is 12-14 races. I checked three tracks, with three different sanctions, and two ran 10 points races, while one ran 11...

1320racer 11-29-2023 12:18 PM

Re: Jr Dragsters At Divisionals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny5160_v2 (Post 689361)
You say this while giving no thought to the possibility that a car set up ideally for the .90 classes is not the same as an ideal bracket setup for the same car.

Ed's assessment of the mentality of many S/SS racers toward the other classes (many; not all) is spot-on.

thank you for speaking the truth and he says that because he doesn't know, doesn't want to know and has been pissed off for decades because of all the junior dragsters, .90 cars, TD and TS that invaded what was their domain!


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