Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Being that I'm 67yr young. When I turned 18. I could buy a brand new 1973 Plymouth Duster with a good job. No matter what engine it came with. It had a class in stock class elimininator.With some handy work and a few performance parts. A helmet on my head. No matter which way it was facing. A NHRA membership. You were running in the big show. Hook the tow bar back on and head home a winner. (On a quick note. Show 100 18 yr olds today a 1973 Plymouth duster picture. "Name that Car!") But now when the 18yr old goes to buy a new car. Well, we have a class for the new 632 engine. Can I drive it to work? It is amazing to me NHRA is blind to this supject. Personally some might know I am/was building a 2014 Challenger. On my wallet size all work has to be done by myself in my 2 car garage. It was beyond the normal stock build. Paul Wong ask to get the same car's V6 in the books. They put the 5.7 in at 300hp. They offer putting the V6 in at factor rated 305. Hello!! I'm over the 8 second combos being added in stock for the well to do.One other note. In 1973 the stockers didn't do wheelies so don't say that what everyone likes.

Paul Haszlauer

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

18 year olds today ain't working full time, many ain't working at all and they ain't interested in a car, no mind buying a new car, hell many don't even have nor want a license so your self serving rant is flawed. IMO, the NHRA has been spot on with the introduction of the Big 3 factory stock eliminator cars. No one except old men get excited about a 69 Camaro today much less a 73 Plymouth Duster. Further, a 10 second street car is the equivalent of watching paint dry today much less watching a race car run that!

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

In a lot of cases, it's the same guys that were racing (or wanted to race) a new car back in the "good old days" that are now buying the FS cars. Since the rules have changed so much over the years, the FS cars are now the equivalent of taking a 1973 Duster from the dealer to the track. If not easier.

There was a time when many local tracks were running Stock Eliminator on a weekly basis. A lot more people were involved back then. Cars were marketed to customers based on there ability to run Stock. The market just isn't there anymore. The OEMs don't have designated people to populate the guides like they used to.

Every once in a while, you run into someone that is willing to put in the time to help you. But, that is a kind act on their part to take on the added work load.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Paul, go back and re-read the "New classes in Stock" thread and you will come to the realization (as I did) that nobody cares.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

This is an eye opener.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inf...960?amount=500

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Use the inflation tool link above to put is whatever numbers. Play with things you bought in the olden days, it is surprising.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

NHRA has all the stoc and super stock cars they want right now. Joist look at the response to the entry to the Gatornationals. It fills in minutes once opened for entry. They only want small fields of sportsman classes. In their mind there is no reason to add more cars to the guide.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Using the provided calculator (thanks BTW) I input what I paid for a new 1967 SS396(325) Chevelle just before entering college.

$2,800 in 1967 is worth $26,549.06 today

In today’s $ that doesn’t buy much of a performance car. I had saved working two jobs in high school and having a part time job in college in order to swing it. In today’s market it’s little wonder kids drive cheap beaters, with coffee can exhausts for “performance”. Just another factor in why you don’t see more young people buying their own way into racing like we did.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

I bought this with paper route money and paid cash, 1695.00.. on my 16th birthday of 1972. Then paid cash for a new crate motor L-72 427/425 (we stuck w/L-88 valve train in it) because that little 302 just didn't live up to expectations.
EDIT. Wont let me load pictures. Says I've already loaded them previously ? Its a 69 Silver RS Z-28

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Money. Younger people will be hesitant about dropping 100 k on a stocker. In some cases the factory support for parts is almost nonexistent. I’ve been trying for years to get a few spare blocks for the Dumbo car, I’m still wishing and hoping.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Billy I suspect NHRA accountants care about the income racers bring into NHRA via Miemeberships,entry fees,money spend with NHRA advertisers and the companies brought to NHRA from racers contacts The money goes into the pot regarless of where it comes from

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Besides having the money to buy a $100k stocker, young people do not have the technical skills or finances to actively campaign a stocker. I got into a discussion with an owner of a Mustang FSS/ at the Nationals. He was a Ford engineer and was explaining how complex the car was to maintain and run.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

You’re fun 🙄

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Among car people, disposable income is practically non existent for the majority, especially at that level. Car people are mostly blue collar, and the younger ones simply don't have the money. And it takes time and money to develop the skills and talent. Honestly, if it were not for the fact that there's literally no part on a car I can't work on and complete, I would have given up long ago. If I was buying much done other than machine work (I currently don't have access to a machine shop) I'd be completely out. As it is, I don't know if/when I'm coming back with my own ride.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

I don't necessarily believe young people don't have the skills to run NHRA S/SS, or can't learn them.
I bought my first car at 14. Joined a car club at 20. Set first Nat'l record at 25.
There are plenty of young, talented TIG welders, engine builders, painters, etc

The issue here is that NHRA let them get away while they weren't paying attention.
First there was Super Chevy, Fun Ford events. Then NMRA, NMCA, NSCA, N/SS groups, and many other drag racing sub-cultures....Power Tours, Drag Week (where they don't even drag race..Just lay down numbers. )
TV inspired Pinks, Pass Call, Outlaws, No-Prep, 10.5 this and that. 275 radials etc. etc, etc.
NHRA Class racing pre-dated all of them.
I don't have to wonder why the young folks don't have any interest in it, for the most part.

At the risk of sounding like 660Ed...Enjoy it while you can ...Going, going, g.....

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

^^ pretty much explains things ^^

When I got hooked on Class racing in the early 80's, NHRA was pretty much the only game in town.

Then came the popularity of the Super Chevy and Ford 5.0 events popping up in the early 90's and that got the attention of the younger gearheads.

Today there are so many more choices for motorsports enthusiast to chose from for their gearhead dollars.

I still love the challenge of getting max performance out of " stock " production parts. But I also understand why younger gearheads are attracted to the heads up type racing venues. Too bad there are not hardly any left at the NHRA offices that care about class racing.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Yeah, pretty tough to match the awesomeness of an engine on a stick dragster, launch for a couple of tenths, fall on it`s face, idle for a couple of seconds, that start to accelerate once again. SOOOO Thrilling!

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Automotive dealerships are full of young men and women that are skilled car enthusiasts who perform their own repairs.
The issue is the cost for racing S/SS.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

S/SS racing is as expensive/inexpensive as an individual wants to make it. If someone can't afford the expense of a "top shelf" program yet doesn't want to race on a budget then that someone doesn't want to race all that bad.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Don, I'm quite certain that you know all too well that when I said "nobody cares" I meant real Racers. And I shouldn't have been so inclusive when I said it (nobody cares). I would have been better off saying that most Racers care only about their own program and in this environment, that's enough to "care" about.
I "care" as much about what the NHRA accountants "care" about as they "care" what I "care" about.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

LOL

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

I challenge you to build a stocker or Superstocker and step away from your amazingly fast keyboard. Show us how it’s done.
I take offense to your statement. So should others.

You continue to disrespect stock and Superstock racers. It took a while but you are gaining confidence here to see what you can get away with.
You don’t run stock or Superstock!



*I’ll refer to the Rayburn Rule. Look it up!

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

This is the reason I sold my super gas car to build a “slower” stocker. I’ll get the same enjoyment building and driving it as the super gas car but there is NO excitement watching that group of cars run. Super comp dragsters have to be the worst, at least the others look like cars. What really kills it is watching a group of top dragsters run how they should preform and it makes super comp look like a grown up version of jr. dragster.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Billy,
The young people I mentioned simply are not attracted to the "Dime Rockets" you race. There is nothing wrong with your choices, they just can't relate to them.
Frank
P.S., Your cars are butt ugly!

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Frank, again I will say if a young person wants to race badly enough then that young person will race whatever he or she can afford to race.
Billy
P.S., a hammer is a hammer, I've never known a pretty hammer to do a better job than an ugly hammer. The only thing that changes is the size of the ego swinging it.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

The entire conversation is moot when it shifts to “young people” AGAIN, young people, Millennials and Generation Z obviously aren’t interested in class racing regardless whether the car is a COPO or a “dime rocket”

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

"Young People" who aren't raised into or brought into it aren't interested in NHRA racing.
But again I will say, if a young person wants to race badly enough then that young person will race whatever he or she can afford to race. You can see it every weekend at Numidia, Beaver, etc,etc,....

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

That I agree with to a point

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

WELL PAUL.. at the age of 69, and attending organized Drag Racing since the age of 15, I find myself looking around the staging lanes at most races and realizing that I'm actually one of the younger guys..

Many of the classes, Stock, Super Stock, and Comp Eliminator requires more than an interest in Drag Racing.. it requires mentoring, teaching, and grooming that interest..

To ask why there is no interest in new combos, one would have to ask, WHO WILL RACE THEM??

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

This is a great thread.

I am a class racer, just not a class drag racer. I am a class autocrosser. Now, before you scroll on, I wanted to chime in here about young racers.

There is no shortage of young class racers, just young class drag racers. I can't swing a dead cat without hitting a young person at an autocross. But, autocross is more about driver skill than making power skill. Don't get me wrong, power certainly has it's place, but a great driver in a low power car will beat a lousy driver in a high power car every time in autocross.

I think there is something to the idea that a class drag car really needs to be towed, but very few "street" (Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) equivalent to NHRA "stock") cars are towed to events. These are the same cars they commute to work/school and go on dates in. I will offer that a "street" class autocross car is pretty much a really stock car with only dampers, tires/wheels and cat back exhaust as allowed modifications. That keeps the costs a little lower i think. In drag racing, I would think the stock rule allowance creep over the years has an impact. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY talks about aftermarket lifters being allowed in "Street." The rules are just tighter and there may be an advantage there.

Young drag racers, who are towing cars, need a tow vehicle and a trailer in addition to their race car. Many young people I know live in apartments where parking a tow vehicle/trailer and race car is just not practical, even if the young folks can afford it. So, "street" class autocross works well for them. (there is no shortage of towed autocross cars, just more street driven autocross cars at events than what I see even at street class bracket racing).

So, I think part of the question that should be asked is not why aren't young people racing, they are, but what and how are they racing? The Solo (autocross) Nationals goes for 4 days and sells out at 1300+ competitors every year (sells out in hours if not minutes). Where was the last 1300 car drag race? So, there is something that is missing. (I can't even get young people to come out to street class bracket race regularly).

Oh, and SCCA national competition, there is a maximum 30 year old car rule for the "street" class. Anything older has to go up a level in modification to continue competing. This is to discourage the advantage of a "unicorn" car combination which has not been available for decades. I am aware of the penalties of rulemaking, if this were to be applied to stock drag racing-many $100K cars would become worth very little and there would be a huge argument against it. But, 40 year old cars can cost a lot of money compared to 10-20 year old cars.

Most "street" class are late models, which can be readily financed and I think there is probably some advantage there. I am not sure many late model stockers in the guide can be financed by average young people due to the cost (not to mention the insurance costs).

The final point i would like to make is there is absolutely zero expectation of winning a purse in autocross. Sure, you may win a set of tires if you win class at a national event, but that's about it. No money. No expectation of covering the cost of entry or tow gas. None of that entire conversation. It's a hobby, why would anyone expect someone else to pay for your hobby? Autocross is not a spectator event so no paying crowd in the stands---pretty much like all the s/ss events I have attended.

I didn't make this post to tout SCCA and autocrossing or bust anybody's chops, but to point out that young people are class racing, but in a different venue. Why is that? Answer that question and I think you'll be on your way to putting young butts in drag race cars.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

AJ Laferty, I dabbled in autocross for a few years while taking a break from drag racing. Your observations are exactly what I noticed. Its a lot of fun for very little money. Best of all, you get their early in the morning and usually heading home by 2 pm the same day. Plus, an autocross can be run at pretty much any large parking lot or small airport. I will say, I think the local wednesday drags at Sacramento raceway had more young people participating than the autocross. Being competitive in autocross stock classes is a lot harder than it looks.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

I've been autocrossing for 32 years, teaching ax for 28. I have had exactly two (2) that showed up for school that knew what they were doing. We all think we are Mario, ayrton senna, lewis hamilton, (pick one) but we are not.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

So true, I did race Super Street (10.90) for a couple of years, over 30 years ago. That was before the cars were all doing the "launch, die, coast, then take off again" dance, back then guys either used a throttle stop in high gear, or by a mechanical throttle pedal stop bolt or shortened travel. And most of the Super street cars were going 120-130 MPH. After 1/2 dozen divisional and 2 National events, I realized that the .90 classes just weren`t for me. Don`t get me wrong, I have a number of friends that race in Super Gas and Super Street, and I can appreciate what is involved in getting the stop and timer dialed in to hit the number, but to me, the thought of spending money to delibaritly slow the car down just seems counterintuitive to a "race".

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Just an observation, from the outside looking in. There are a multitude of obvious reasons that the younger crowd isn't class racing in Stock and Super Stock, but to think that they are not drag racing is delusional. Heads up racing is what excites the younger generation, with power adders taking the forefront. Go to any heads up race and look at the racers. Especially the latest fad of No Prep style racing. Or Grudge Racing. It's young guys (and gals), in turbo, supercharged, or nitrous cars, with very minimal rules, racing first to the finish line wins. They don't have to be bothered with certain part numbers to be legal. And they get to go way quicker than any Stock Eliminator, and probably all but maybe a couple Super Stock cars. And on top of that, the purses are larger. I'm an old guy. I grew up around Gas and Modified, Stock and Super Stock. I've been debating building a new Stock or SS car. But truthfully, every time I start adding up the cost, I wonder "why do I want to spend this much money, to go this slow, for this limited return on investment" For the same money, I can build a 7 second, (or quicker), stock style suspension doorslammer, and race somewhere almost every weekend, without the hassles you guys go through to even try to get accepted to enter a race. Again, I'm not knocking Class Racing, I have always loved it. But I'm just voicing my opinion why it is dying out.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

young to you maybe but regardless of the drag racing venue, young people... Millennials and Generation Z are not interested in Drag Racing no mind competing in any great numbers that will ensure the sports survival and replace one for one every baby boomer that has and will retire and die.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Charlie 69 is my favorite # :)

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

in 10 years from now, stock, super stock, comp will be decimated due to the large loss of racers. Just walk their lanes at any divisional starting next month and start counting the racers that will be retired from racing or dead by then. The numbers should scare you.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

I’m talking about 20 to 30 year olds. When I go to a local No Prep race, they are everywhere. Racing and spectating

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Tony I agree,,like Pinks TV draws the kids in. Look at Drag Race results now. Do you see a stock, Superstock or any other sportsman cars there?? Nope!
Once in a great while we see Sportsman on TV. It’s all about the Pro’s. Sad.
Discovery does a good job on the story and not on the car and driver.

Re: Why is there no interest in all new combos
 

Tony, As an old Modified racer, I could fix you right up...for peanuts ;-)