Entry level class?
 

Someone just recently posted on another thread that Stock is an "entry level class".
Is there even such a thing in the NHRA anymore? I know Stock definitely isn't.
Super Street? Hardly. JR. Dragster? Yeah, right. Maybe at the local tracks the Street Bracket program (ironically called Sportsmen) could be considered entry level but nothing at the Div. or Natl. level.
Any thoughts?

Re: Entry level class?
 

Entry level classes rarely remain entry level. Someone will always come in and decide they want to be the big fish in the little pond, and don't care what it costs.


Of course, the days of finding parts suppliers willing or able to take on small low volume projects and spend time and money on them seem to be getting very close to over.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Billy I think Super Street is more entry level than stock these days. Any platform goes, you don’t have to spend tons of money to go 10.90, I know those guys like to go 150 mph but you don’t have to be that aggressive. I think you could make a crate 383 stroker motor go 10.90 for pretty cheap if you wanted to do the divisional/National scene. Only real restriction is the min weight for the class

Tim Stickles

Re: Entry level class?
 

Super Street could be an entry level class if it was restricted to NO ELECTRONICS and FOOT BRAKE ONLY!

Re: Entry level class?
 

...with a MPH rule, say 125?
I am in no way saying this should happen to Super Street, but an entry level class should probably look at both E.T. and MPH restrictions.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Sure, you can run 10.90 fairly cheap these days. But being able to run 10.90 doesn't necessarily make you really competitive. If it did, people would not be building 540 big blocks with 800+ HP.


That's exactly my point. Someone is always going to come in and buy big HP, etc., to gain an advantage.


If you wanted it to be entry level, remove the throttle stops, delay boxes, and air shifters.


Notice, I do not run Super Street, I have a couple of friends that do, and are competitive. I am absolutely NOT calling for or proposing rule changes for their class. I'm just pointing out where the money comes in, and where the entry level goes out. It's not "my" class, and certainly NOT my place to tell them how things should be.


Forty years or so ago, we were running Super Comp with a ten year old Hal Canode Top Alcohol hard tail 240" dragster, a big block Chevy with a flat tappet cam, oval port heads and a single 4 barrel, a PowerGlide with a trans brake, no throttle stop, no delay box, and no air shifter. At least 3 or 4 times, we qualified number one with an 8.90X, and went rounds. We adjusted the ET with the shift point and about four pieces of lead, cast in old small block Chevy valve covers. We had a "big motor", it had more compression, a huge roller cam, Gary Williams rectangle port heads, tunnel ram, and 1150 Dominators. We had to put big tires on it, put all the lead in it, and put it in high rear about 10' off the starting line. We actually had two Super Gas cars running the same combination. The engines were interchangeable. You'd be hard pressed to find anything that mundane, mild, and basic anywhere in Super classes today.

Re: Entry level class?
 

I had high hopes when Jr. Dragster first started. I had visions of affordable cars that families could buy/build for their kid(s), and get a large number of kids involved in racing. Sadly, that was not to be.

Re: Entry level class?
 

stock is an entry level class for anyone that has the means to purchase one of the factory stock eliminator cars.:D

Re: Entry level class?
 

Stock is not an entry level class. It is one of the toughest most competitive classes there is. As a former Super Street racer I can honestly say Super Street was intended to be an entry level class. When NHRA decided to move to the .370 pro tree many Super Gas racers moved to Super Street due to the inability to cut a good light. When that occurred many Super Gas cars with larger cubic inch engines caused racers to build faster cars. I believe NHRA should not allow tube chassis cars and limit cubic inch in order to return the class to what it was intended to do.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Good luck with that. From my experiences with the NHRA, I have found that whenever they give you something (even if by mistake!) they very rarely will take it back. Kinda like welfare checks! ;-)

Re: Entry level class?
 

You guys are funny, the only real entry-level class now is super comp
And as for taking away throttle stops, big motors, and all that crap you’re delusional they run an 11 50 850, and 10 flat class with no electronic help and hardly ever get very many cars. They even tried to run those classes at Nhra divisionals a few times what a joke so don’t think that’s gonna happen. We race by NHRA rules that’s it. Of course I want the best car within the rules. If you don’t like it, don’t play.

Re: Entry level class?
 

It's obvious there is no going back as far as the rules for each category. But I say leave those alone and stop liberalizing rules just because a chosen few lobby for changes. Been racing stock on and off since '72. Stock is no longer "stock". Let things be ! No more enhancements.

Re: Entry level class?
 

you're delusional

Re: Entry level class?
 

Stock can still be entry level if you pick one of the slower classes. Get in, get your feet wet, and have some fun. If your idea is to hop in and set the world on fire you'll probably be disappointed.

Last round of S/ST I watched there were multiple T/S cars throttle stopped down to 10.90. Seemed like a huge waste of resources, but nobody was asking what I thought.

Re: Entry level class?
 

You’re delusional

Re: Entry level class?
 

I don't know about delusional. I know 2 former multiple time world champs in Super Comp and Super gas that told me that Stock and Super Stock is a different driving style but every bit as competitive as SC and SG. Al for bracket racing, my former driver went to the Division 5 bracket finals and won the Pro ET championship in a borrowed car he never drove before. By the way, if you get a Gold Card in ET racing, you can also use it to enter your class car at NHRA Div and Nat events.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Quote]By the way, if you get a Gold Card in ET racing, you can also use it to enter your class car at NHRA Div and Nat events.[/QUOTE]


that may have Changed, with a gold card you used to be able to run any et event at any nhra track. My last couple of Nhra gold cards were not good for NHRA bracket racing. And only way to get an et gold card was to win the bracket finals, not too many of those out there. But the et gold card might be different….

Re: Entry level class?
 

That might have been the deal in the beginning.
I can tell you for a fact, it wasn't the case
15 years ago.
Whether they changed it back now, or not, I do not know.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Dammit Billy, you stirred some **** up this time!

Re: Entry level class?
 

Then come show everyone how great you are, superman.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Super Comp is entry level?

Re: Entry level class?
 

Fwiw, I liked index racing. Had fun and I had friends racing Outlaw10.5.
I used to drive by Atco to go to Cecil for the SSCS.

I didn't build the car for index but fit the rules and could be .000 on .500 PT.
With ATI contingency it was $750 for a win for $50 entry.
I'd run PD as well. Go some rounds and get money back. Runner up'd there was my best there.

Not sure on any plans for racing in the future. It was nice having a track one mile away.
FLC!

Re: Entry level class?
 

I/Stock, quit counting at 50K and still looking for more. I do 95% of the work, have at least 5k of parts that didn't work, or didnt fit, goal is to qualify top 10 on ladder, did it in Denver then had tranny problems, another 7k spent . Nothing cheap about Stock.
Probably would of been cheaper to buy a factory car by the time I am done. Thank God I don't gamble , drink or do drugs one bad habbit is enough, I still fish. lol.

Randy Wells
I/S 5628

Re: Entry level class?
 

A lot of the kids aging out of Juniors don't want a door car.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Alan, I don’t believe any NHRA based class is entry-level, although for the cost and what I’ve seen I do believe super comp would be a less expensive class for a total start-up
like Reagan said most of the kids coming out of Jr dragsters don’t want a door car.
of course they don’t want an old dragster with a small block that can barely run 890 or a door car that can barely run 1090 they’re entitled to better. lol

Re: Entry level class?
 

You are correct it’s a lot of fun, I had a 67 Dodge that I ran in the 1150 index class when I wasn’t running super Street or super gas somewhere. I won quite a few times and it was a different way of racing. No doubt but winners will win and people will find a way to cheat in those classes too. My whole response about those classes was that it didn’t or wouldn’t replace super street someone on here was bashing super Street for going overboard with motors, electronics, etc. basically saying it was time for no electronic classes, that is not a replacement just a different style. I like all of them and play by their rules that guy just needs to understand when they make rules you play by them don’t try to change them because you don’t like them.
And for what it’s worth stock is not an entry-level class either. they just need to stop all the enhancements, etc. etc. leave things the way they are if anybody wants to come in they’ll have to do it like everybody else get a car, work on it, pick a class and go racing. We should all be glad the classes that are there now are there so we can all enjoy

Re: Entry level class?
 

We see this term, "Entry Level" come up over and over on this site...what does it actually mean?
Other than a handful of times racing in Trophy with my street car, I had never entered a drag race before starting in Stock.
It just depends what you want to do, how bad you want it, how much knowledge and skill you possess, and how much money you can spend. If you don't have enough of any of those, it's going to take some time to gather resources.
Does "Entry Level" mean that anyone can wake up one day and decide they want to race NHRA, go get whatever equipment they can get their hands on, and be competitive that weekend? If so, it doesn't exist...in drag racing, or any other form of competition, there is a learning curve.
If I was going to label any class in drag racing Entry Level, it would be one of the bracket classes like Trophy or Sportsman...but even in those classes, when you show up for the first time, everyone else is going to be better than you!

Re: Entry level class?
 

I understand that may be where kids from Jr. Dragster go (and they're used to expensive cars there, too), my point was Super Comp is mostly populated with $50K+ 4 link dragsters, with $30K+ 598 big block Chevy engines, $4K PowerGlides, and $5K of electronics and throttle stops. Hardly "entry level".

Re: Entry level class?
 

You failed to read what was written. No one proposed changing the rules in Super Street. We merely stated what kept the class from being "entry level". No one suggested taking anything away from anyone. A couple of people said it would be more entry level IF some things were changed. No one suggested the should, must, or would be changed. In fact, I specifically stated I was not proposing a single rule change, that it wasn't a class I was involved with in any serious way, and I had no standing to make such a proposal.

Re: Entry level class?
 

It pays the least to win at nationals so it must be entry level!

Re: Entry level class?
 

I'm quite sure that it's considered "entry level" from NHRA's end.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Why do you all keep replying to him. If we all ignore him he will eventually go away

Re: Entry level class?
 

I just looked in the 2024 rulebook and I could’ve swore at one time in the past super Street was listed as an entry level class that wording is not there anymore. I guess even NHRA knows better.

OK here’s another question. How did you get started in drag racing?
For me, I went with my father and watched a funny car show at US 13 dragway after that I wanted in! so we ran my daily driver in the trophy class the very next weekend that was my beginner class
And yes, after years and years of bracket racing my introduction into NHRA class racing was with super Street and at the time it was a 4/10 tree, which made it very difficult with any 10 second car

Re: Entry level class?
 

True statement of the day.

Re: Entry level class?
 

I saw my first LODRS event (it wasn't LODRS then) about 1976 at Bowling Green.


I literally "walked on" to a team of guys racing Super Pro, Super Gas, and a class called "Jr. Pro Stock" while I was in high school. I moved up to building the engines and transmissions, and setting up the rear ends, as well as being a crew chief. They bought a dragster and went Super Comp and fast bracket racing. I literally learned from some of the very best, Jimmy Bridges, Harry Vineyard, Ronnie Duke, Mike Lynch, Sonny Elliot, and a host of others.

Re: Entry level class?
 

I've stated here before, be careful of what you ask for.

IF I put my son in a stocker, he will be division champ within 3 years!

Re: Entry level class?
 

Ed, I think we're talking about YOU in a Stocker! But if your son wants in, he'll be more than welcome!

Re: Entry level class?
 

Go ahead, skippy. Show us how it's done.:rolleyes:

Re: Entry level class?
 

Billy, stock eliminator doesn’t need another old man. The class is largely heaven’s waiting room and no shock it’s dominated by under 40 racers. My son would kill it in stock!

Re: Entry level class?
 

You might be right, but you would have to change engine builders to someone we've heard of here, ...yes ?