Heads up class clarification
 

If class is being run at a Divisional race and there are more than two cars in a particular class, how is it determined who runs whom first round ?
Thanks, Larry

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

Class isn't usually contested at Divisional races. Regardless, who runs who is usually decided in a gentlemanly way by the contestants. If two guys (out of say 5 contestants) want to race each other, they "pair-off" and the remaining 3 guys work out who races who. If there is an uneven number of contestants (like 5, instead of four, six or eight), the fastest guy is often given the bye for the first round.

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

Can't speak for other divisions but in Div 6, we had an actual qualifying sheet for class run offs for each of the individual classes.

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

Class is run off a sportsman ladder. If there is a bye, it goes to the fastest qualified car in that class.

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

It is in 2024.. The majority of Class Eliminations this year are at Divisionals. …:):)

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

Couple of things here given this is semi-related and I don't want to start yet another thread elsewhere:

If I were to run someone in the same class as me, but one is an auto and the other is a stick, is it still heads up? I don't think they run class with each other, but I didn't know how it applied during the race.

Also, where are the procedures for the actual race itself defined? As in, where does it say it's a handicapped start bracket race, must dial at least your index, heads up run if you match up with someone in your same class? I just looked through the rulebook on Stock and it really doesn't describe the actual running of the race with any detail. I understand how the class is run at this point, but I'd love to find an official NHRA resource that describes it more officially that I can point others to who have questions about the class.

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

No, not even in what is considered a class "combo" would a stick and auto car run heads up. If there is only one car in some classes, they run a class "combo," which is heads up, handicapped start based off the indexes of the respective cars. This can be very good fun to watch. As for the other questions you have, on page 1 of section 11A of the rulebook it states "Category is based on a handicap start using the NHRA index
system; breakout rules apply." I have not "mastered" my way around the rulebook, but I'm sure it is spelled out in there somewhere. Also being part of the "slow car" against the index club, take special care to notice your potential first round opponents between qualifying runs. I've noticed a pattern in D1 of where other "F/SA" cars in my case usually end up after being 2/2 for getting a heads up race first round. Personally, I'd rather bracket race a "hitter" first round than have a heads up run with someone that has me covered by half a second, but that's just me.

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

What about the FWD classes that run stick and automatic in the same class ?

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

Billy is going to be disappointed when he see's that I forgot about him. I'm not sure about factory stock, being that they don't have separate classes for stick/auto either, but FWD do run together. FWD stick cars must add 100lb to the class weight to make it "even."

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

There a lot of procedures not mentioned in the rulebook.

When I was writing for Super Stock and researching the nitrous issue, I was lucky enough to come across something I'd never seen. It was an internal NHRA book published for NHRA officials/employees and was never released to the membership. It wasn't on the production level of the rulebook, but just a bunch of typed pages on normal paper. I can't remember if it was bound or just stapled together.

It contained things like what you're wondering about along with a lot more things that covered a lot of race and tech etc, procedures that at the time were what we were all used to but weren't in the rulebook.

I can't remember the title of the thing though something on the order of General Procedures comes to mind. Sadly. it disappeared during a move a long time ago. Wish I still had it and I honestly don't know if such a thing still exists.

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

Factory Stock runs manuals and automatics together .

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

SS/AH runs stick and auto

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

This is the tech policies and procedure manual, I do not believe it exists anymore within Tech in my discussions. There was an initiative to write most of the manuals content into the rulebook. I could be wrong and it still exists, but I believe that Tim White wanted to do away with the manual and only have the rulebook.

There is a policy manual that exists in the tower of races for the race/division director.

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

I wish it wasn't shrouded in secrecy. I think racers should have access to that information too. A little bit of transparency goes a long way. Also, if you ever wanted to get into class racing, without a knowledgeable person that's already participating, you wouldn't be able to learn squat.

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

I went to look at national record related rules when I stumbled upon the answer to this question. This is Section 2, Page 8 "Dialing under the Index"

"DIALING UNDER THE INDEX
Contestants in Super Stock and Stock have the option of
dialing under their class’ assigned index. It is the responsibility
of each contestant to place the selected time on the
windshield and tower-side window prior to each round of
competition. Dial-unders may be changed between rounds,
including a rerun situation. All contestants not choosing to dial
under will automatically be handicapped on the basis of their
assigned class index. In cases where two cars of the same
class are paired, the race is conducted on a heads-up basis,
regardless of any dialing-under considerations, and breakout
rulings do not apply"

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

Adding in 1 cautionary note here: Each combo within each class, has a designated minimum wt to reach after each of those runs are completed and you arrive at the scale to weigh the car and driver. (So, that stick adds 100 lbs. Is already added in to the equation), but that class race is not over until that winner receives the thumbs up at the scales and fuel ck.

Do not just drive on by and head back to the pits, because if you lose and drive on by, you missed your chance to get weighed in and fuel ck yourself.

Just a cautionary tale, as I have seen it happen. Class racing does not end always when the win light comes on, it ends when those 2 thumbs up happen.

It is an interesting discussion that the OP opened up, and just attempting to be thorough here. As I am not one to junk up a line at the scales and fuel ck, (if it was close, and there is a Wally on the line), there is only 1 shot at those 2 thumbs up, so look over my opponent and you will find me waiting nearby waiting for your smile at each, so I can give my congrats to you (or I can also get mine weighed and ckd).

I will not divulge the name (may the lord rest his departed soul), O.C.I.R. early 80's sometime, a certain class racer I knew won a round during a certain heads up class race, passed the scales absolutely dead nuts on the minimum wt., passed fuel ck., then drove about 12', and was stopped by an NHRA Div. Official, and he wanted to take a look see under the drivers seat...(Driver still in the seat), and oh my, there was a loose flywheel/flexplate, an embarrassing moment to be sure, and lucky for his opponent , he had weighed in and been ckd on the fuel. There was no need to re-weigh the car, the offense was much more damaging than just a (light at the scales), round loss.

The offender was DQ'd, the other guy was awarded the round win.

It isn't always over till it is over.

I was not class racing at the time, but via a question over a year later from the official, it was divulged that same official, had pre weighed the car, knew it was light, and somehow found out that illegal ballast had been added by a happenstance witness report. So he checked it, as he should have.

I am older, the game is harder, my time is running short, I wanna play, and if you see me in the lines after the run, I just want to assure I was legal, don't take offense. And forfeiting my one chance after each pass they are open to prove it is foolish at this point.

I would like to hear what others think on that part of the equation...

Re: Heads up class clarification
 

My opponent absolutely drove out of my life first round of class eliminations at Gainesville this past weekend, I only could go -.22 under but I followed him to the scales and weighed just in case he flunked one of the checks. I wasn't trying to be rude or assume anything, but you never know. I failed fuel check at Orlando the first qualifying run for seemingly no reason. I put the same fuel back in the car and passed the next hit. Could've happened to my opponent there too. Since I started running stock, I drive over the scales every single pass no matter what, I might take up space but it's a habit I don't want to break.