ET with and without wheelie.
 

How much will a wheelie affect ET plus or nothi?

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

My personal experience is big wheelies are faster for me. And I've heard the saying loose is fast :) Rear wheel 60 's for the win ;)

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I borrowed a SS Camaro and co sisterly went faster by .04 when car would wheelie smack the bars a day spin the tire. Settle car down and .04 slower.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

When dead hooking, typically no wheelie will run quicker ET vs. a wheelie breaking the beams with the back tires which will also run a slower 60 foot by about .09.

go to 2:33:00, 5:25:00, 6:48:20 right lane. Despite appearing to break the 60 foot beam with the rear tires, it is not. We dial in the 60 foots with the front shock extension based on DA swing which is everything as it relates to ET and consistency. Our 60 foots for the entire 3 day weekend were 1.26.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMHYwUfTgTk&t=26431s

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I've been sitting here a while deciding whether to post. I honestly could write a couple of pages but will try and keep it as concise as i can.

Though my experience was mostly in a different class, I've had this conversation with class racers a few times. It's probably going to be a very unpopular view here, but in each case I told them that wheelies simply slowed a car down. Every one of them disagreed and told me that stockers and superstockers had to do them. But wait! My opinion is only true if there are no other variables involved.

Think of the force it would take for 5 or six guys to lift the front end of the car to the same height if it was just sitting in the pits. Yes, suspension leverage will reduce that but it's still a question of straight physics. Whatever force is being used to lift the front end could/should be instead transferred to moving the car forward.

But like I said, it's complicated by variables. Forget wheelstands for a moment. Wheelspeed is everything. Period. Higher is better as long as they're driving the car and not losing momentum to excessive spin. So if a wheelie's effect on weight transfer to the rear tires keeps them from going out the window into being less effective moving the car forward, it will be an overall plus.

The people here will forget more than I will ever know about class racing. And it may just not be possible with what you have to work with to achieve tires right on the edge while keeping the front wheels dancing. But physics can't be denied, and that's the ideal case for power to the ground and acceleration.

A different class, but when I'd watch the edges of the slicks quiver all the way through first gear I knew it was going to be a good run.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Back in the eighties I was running a SS/BA Corvette that did big wheelies and was told by most that l needed to calm it down some with limiters, etc. I tried several ways of keeping the front end on the ground but they all hurt the ET so I went back to letting it get pretty high and never looked back.

I would explain my theory but might get beat up by a physics major.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

4 decades ago no one built a double adjust shock. Today, they are readily available from multiple manufactures, my choice is Afco and with the turn of a knob

https://i.imgur.com/YqxDsHRl.jpg


my car launches without any wheelie, dead hooks and runs quicker 60 foot and ET.

Oh and my engine makes more power than yours did and runs a smaller slick than you did.:D

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

That's pretty much what Kenny Schindler told me and I highly value both your opinions. Being proven wrong is one of the most valuable things that can happen in learning things. It's one reason I went ahead and posted what i did because obviously I must be missing something and would love to know what it is.

It's always frustrating for me to run into things like "that shouldn't work but it does" and "that was a big improvement but I have no idea why". I'm talking about those statements coming from racers I could not respect more and have no need to defend their abilities.

Thinking more about it, I guess even with all the years we've learned new things, there are still a lot of areas in drag racing like that. And I totally understand that when you're on the track, it doesn't matter if you can detail why something is quicker because all that matters is that it is.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

but it's NOT!

My Firebird IS a super stock car, built by arguably the best and it DOES ET quicker with no wheelie. The engine under the stock hood doesn't know it's not super stock legal.

https://i.imgur.com/bkXk8Q4l.jpg

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I forgot that my example was 40 years old and no one built good shocks back then but it appears that what worked then is still working reasonably well today but with much better control due to the evolution of shocks.

Exact reason I didn't share my theory.

Bracket cars and superstock cars are two different animals, transmissions, converters, gear ratios, power curves, etc., etc.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Gotta agree with Jimmy on this one …I have been told that during the wheelie it makes the converter work more efficiently …...1320 please do not reply to my post…..I have dealt with enough IDIOTS today and like many on CR I do not give 2 ****z about your opinion OR your (. ) car ……

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I don't give a shyt what you think of my opinion or car! You don't know better nor have better!:p

BS, that's what you want to believe.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Hard to have a meaningful discussion with 1320 around.

Pose a question to your fellow stock, superstock racers that run your class and get opinions from a bracket racer.

I agree with my Buddy Mike, just leave me and my posts alone.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I started the thread to try to scrape the knowledge of the people here who've been successful for years. In this case, to try and understand why something that shouldn't work actually seems necessary. It's very obvious that people have decided that through testing. Maybe the wrong section and we may never get a clear explanation, but pretty interesting still.

It looks like that guy is pretty invested in the topic, but I've not seen a single thing he typed, no doubt using a single finger. He is the only person in roughly 30 years of online conversations that I've ever blocked. I recommend that move highly. You know, separate the wheat from the chaff, the signal from the noise...

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

No 2 cars are exactly the same so it's unlikely there is a "right" answer that fits every application. In my experience as long as you're not unloading the rear tires, it's not the wheelie that slows a car down, it's the landing. I have found that if I can smooth out the G-meter dip at touch down, without giving up any 60', the car goes faster. There are lots of different ways to approach that, including wheel stand height.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

You didn't start this thread!

1. where did the OP say his question was regarding a S/SS car? Answer...he didn't and it doesn't matter!

2. This bracket racer knows far more than you!

3. My firebird has won more Wally's and more $ than anyone replying here! Now What part of the truth and the facts don't you like? :p

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

That's what I found also with my old bracket car, trying to control wheelstands with travel limiters, timing and weight. When I finally got a good set of front shocks from Randy Manns et's improved and consistency came around. When I bought my stocker, I didn't give the QA1 shocks a chance. Phone call to Fast Shocks before it ever hit the track.


Tom Flowers
E/SA 3860

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I'm replying to the OP & no one else. ;)

Our car is slightly quicker when set-up for a smaller the wheelie than a big one.

As for no wheelie our car is considerably slower.

Your results may vary.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

SS/AH cars don't wheelie too high, but A. Lincoln Morehead's Camaro reaches for the sky every pass and is bad fast. Every car is different, but I must say Calvert bars changed Stock Eliminator forever.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

clueless replies here from a few that think they know.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Did you watch the hemi shoot out at Indy this year?

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Thats going to vary from car/truck to car/truck Its not simple physics at all you also have to consider air drag of the front end versus air drag of the bottom of the car, front wheel drag versus none(during wheelie) offset by wheelie bar wheel drag(if the car has wheelie bars)

In the case of my 10.4-10.60 something truck(which is set up with a 9 inch tire ie stocker build), with no wind, the bigger the wheelie the quicker it is, when it goes into fly and be free mode, its flashing the convertor higher, which reduces the 60 foot on the rear tire time and lands 100-125 feet out there. Good sanhuffs keep it from a bouncing too much. It goes 100% straight every time.....except for TOO big of a wheelie, which will torque steer it a touch onto 1 tire, etc and kill a couple in ET as its going snake like down the track.

There used to be a rule of thumb out there I think maybe in the MP books, something like 10 flat and less more wheelie would be slower due to aero drag, with modern stuff, I think you could get away with 9.30's

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Testing, Testing and more Testing to see what works best with your combination.
Too many different combinations with different variables to say one thing works best.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Comella has his stuff in one sock as we say down South. BIG wheel speed and he pulls 2nd by the tree with the front up about a foot. He wins every race right there. I am sure he test and like I said "it's in one sock". Former Phish

Congrats to him

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

translated...can't spew myth, rumor, hearsay and bs on this forum when 1320 states the TRUTH backed by FACTS!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

It is obvious that every combination will have its own characteristics, weight transfer amount vs. wheel spin, two wheels on the ground vs. four, convertors reaction to it all, etc. etc. Serious testing on your own combination will give you the answer. For those not living in the Northeast, you will have to accomplish this without Ed. We know this puts you at a distinct disadvantage, but do the best you can.

J.R.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I travel and have helped many bracket and class racers, some which have learned the hard way that the forums typically aren’t the place to get the truth and the facts, rather opinion based on myth, rumor and hearsay from those that think they know or sales pitches from those that stand to make a profit.

That said, THE PROOF IS IN THE PERFORMANCE and my Firebird has it as well the big checks and the Wallys!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I always worked with stick cars, so the converter thing is pretty interesting. I'm going to enjoy trying to figure out what's going on there.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Ed, I know most of the Racers that you do, name a few.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

you don't and If they wanted their names here they would have told me. IF you ever see me in person again, ask and I'll tell you.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

You've got an excuse for everything don't you Ed.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Nope!

But being that you insist, ask Vinny who got his car working better than ever years ago.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

OMG this thread has been completely ripped to shreads. Started out very informative, I have done a lot of things in my lifetime but I do not shove it down peoples throats. Show some respect, if you can't show respect then do not post.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

And I'm happy for Vinny! He deserves it.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Vinny has far more important things now to be happy about. That said the car’s front suspension was completely redesigned by Fark’s maybe 3 years ago, not stock geometry anymore, now a tube chassis front clip.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Glenn,
I did and thought that it was one of the best. didn't think the front wheels were that high off the track.
Frank

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

They weren't, I wonder why :D

Looks like they know what this bracket racer has been stating here. :)

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Ed,
What is the average 60' by the Firebird?
Frank

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Frank, it depends on any given race day/weekend as to what I want it to be as we adjust the front shocks based on DA and continue to do so throughout the day and night as the DA rises and falls so the wheelie and 60 foots remain consistent. This past weekend they were low 1.26 over 3 days. That said, the best ever has been 1.17

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

With my Chevy II if we tied it down it would lose .10 loosing it back up to do huge wheelstands it would pick that .10 right back up. Just my experience.