How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Last year there were 72 cars that made it to the semi finals at National events.


Take a guess as to how many winners were in the top 10??


And all of you out there who bang on about Stock and Super Stock being a performance eliminator then eliminate the shoe polish and run off your index. As long as WE have shoe polish WE are nothing more than BRACKET RACERS.


Awaiting your kind responses.


Sarge

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Bracket racers who sit around for days and race for pittance.

Finally the FACTS and the TRUTH are spoken here by one of their own, about the almighty stock eliminator racer that thinks what they do is special. Bravo!

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Qualifying can make or break your day. There is an obvious advantage to qualifying in the top 2-3 positions. Also, the ability to move around the ladder can help you win a round or two.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

If you don't recognize how AHFS has changed qualifying strategies, or understand that the fastest guys aren't showing their potential, then you might not understand why qualifying in the top 10 (or 16) isn't a goal for a lot of racers anymore.

Qualifying in the top 3 has advantages with the right number of cars in the field, but with the risk of taking a strike and possibly a HP hit down the road. It's a risky play that racers with the potential contemplate when there's an odd number of entries and singles in the right places.

Strategic position qualifying is also a strategy when you're the fast guy with slower cars in your class at the event, or have a competitor in a points battle that you want to take out. The right position could be anywhere on the ladder.

Qualify dead in the middle of the pack and you can draw one of the top 3 and take their single, or end up drawing someone on the bottom of the ladder. The middle of the ladder can be a good place to be.

If you are fast and have laid down too many fat numbers, or have someone else with your combination blowing up the average in your class, then you better be qualifying somewhere around .65 under to bring that average down to protect yourself from getting hit.

If you want to see racers showing their true performance potential in qualifying, then there needs to be incentives to do so. There's a myriad of ways to do that, but for now the smart play for a fast guy is to lay low so he can pounce when necessary without being punished.

So yes, qualifying is important. There's just more to it than being in the top 10

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Take a guess as to how many winners were in the top 10??

Joe Sorensen comes to mind


And all of you out there who bang on about Stock and Super Stock being a performance eliminator then eliminate the shoe polish and run off your index. As long as WE have shoe polish WE are nothing more than BRACKET RACERS.

To make that work you would have ensure every combo is factored correctly. Can't see that happening.
We raced when you ran off the national record, became real interesting when the factories introduced "net" HP ratings.





Sarge[/QUOTE]

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Everyone needs to be the lead dog It is like a breath of fresh air. It is a lot of fun and a whole lot of work.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Qualifying can be very important. You need the ability to be able to go low,
or 2nd or 3rd to take advantage of odd lot fields, which should appear
around 1/2 the time. when no advantage there, then running close to
-65 under to build up some credit for when you do need to let it loose,
is prudent. Knowing your car so that you can put it where you want it
or need it is an invaluable asset, and very hard to do consistently. Unlike
classes that are not laddered, or that don't have Heads-Up runs, we have
a chance to control our destiny a little bit. Every class has it nuances,
these are some of ours, and we like it. I hope your enjoying yours.

J.R.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Q data is the hardest to manipulate, only one data point per race. E data is easily changed with up to seven data points per race.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

From someone relatively new to Stock Eliminator, almost always in the bottom 5 of qualifying, and in a relatively non-competitive class (N/SA has some super fast guys, but there are only like 2 others on the east coast) qualifying means almost nothing to me. It would be nice to move on the ladder from time to time, but it does not effect me in almost any way. As long as I'm under my index, I do not care where I land on the ladder.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Take a guess as to how many winners were in the top 10??

Joe Sorensen comes to mind

World champions and perennial late-round racers win because they have their complete racing act together. Being able to win a heads-up race against a same-class car is a small by-product of their efforts.

For the rest of us, we're bracket racers with nice cars who just enjoy the sport.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

If you have a fast car AND you know how to read a Q sheet and how it will correlate with the eventual latter (ie. where byes are and where advantageous draws are) then it absolutely is an advantage.

If you have a fast car and just air it out it every pass and let the cards fall where they may...then it is just dumb luck.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Are you really? Would you then say that you don't study how the rest of our community is performing? Do you not dream up ways to find another tenth? Is the drama that surrounds class eliminations just boring to you? Is your qualifying ritual to just run whoever you get, even if it's a heads-up loss? Do you tell all your friends that you are a bracket racer or a class racer?

(Not really aimed at you, but my questions to all that just try to shrug off what we do as "just another bracket race"....)

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

I had 3 heads up runs 1st round this past year, so yes I would say it is somewhat important.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

TRUTH and FACTS!

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Since you know everything and you are the SELF appointed expert on CR , when Mr Sorensen raced Mr Langdon out west….were they Bracket Racing ???

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

On this particular subject you are WAY out of your league. You are an outsider looking in. Until you have tried to run a Stocker or Super Stocker at a serious level, you words hold no credibility on this matter.

I would love to see what your team can do in this arena....

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

1. I’m not out of my league, I’m quoting those who race stock eliminator and

2. We’d kill it!

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Quoting and DOING are two different stories. In all things we find both positive and negative people. I feel the positive people tend to have more fun.

Then bring it....

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Be careful of what you ask for.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

I will never forget how surprised I was when I finally met Toby Lang at Seattle in the early 90s. He showed me the thick notebook containing ladder combinations for various numbers of cars in the field. It was absolutely something I'd neve considered in my heads up days but thought it was genius.

The only time I'd seen one before was in the tower being used by race control.

Yes, they were(are) very good racers but I'm sure that 1) keeping track of things like this and 2) having the minds to realize it was a factor affected their racing. History proves it out.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Anthony Bertozi is the best i ever saw at landing on the sheet. So that tells me that qualifying is pretty important.

ep

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Agreed. 100%

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

That sword cuts both ways...
Just saying...

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Ain’t worried 1 iota

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

I saw Anthony and Labbous 2 years ago in Brainerd. The final session of
T/D qualifying. Anthony's car was so far back in the lanes you couldn't
see it. The 2 of them were up by the start line watching every car make
its final hit. Anthony was purposely qualified last. If I remember correctly,
he ended up with a bye 1st round & another one in the semi's. Make no
mistake, in between he had to do the job, and he did. But, most of his competitors had to win 5 rounds, Anthony had to win 3. Anthony had
to do 60% of the work of his final round competitor. So, smart, good,
and a hell of a chef. Unbeatable combo at any race!

J.R.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

The only thing 1320 jackass would kill would be his engine.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Have seen lot of folks with ladder books?example here. Seem to remember Sacramento Raceway use to have a link to ladders but don?t know of free ladders these days. Anyone else?

http://store.raceamerica.com/3199S-S...OAD_p_197.html

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Still there. I downloaded them years ago and made my own book.

http://sacramentoraceway.com/?page_id=277

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

We do have a ladder book in the Trailer and use it!

Jim is right = for us the sweet spot is right dead in the middle
of the field.

However, sometimes easier said than done in practice, due to
the unpredictability of everyone else on the final qualifier for the
ladder.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

This all presupposes that any car can at least run the index.

That isn?t always easy or a given. Especially when starting out in class racing.

Sarge, I would say qualifying must be kind of important to you. The 302 2bbl is super soft and you have a good car as well. You can qualify with ease at any race on the schedule. If it wasn?t kind of important why change from your last car?
( and Sarge not knocking why you would do this, but it certainly changes one?s perspective on qualifying when the car is that far under)


As far as going fast, it means less when the field isn?t full and or not many heads up runs,.

Good point about AHFS, if you plan ahead for races that may require you to let it out, it is prudent to keep your avg low prior to that so that hp hits are avoided at the end of the year.

Keep in mind, the stock and Superstock classes are a blend of bracket and heads up to keep the cost somewhat reasonable.

It is a decent compromise, but I do think more incentives for heads up and performance improvements would improve the classes.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Important to qualify from family members first. Points races at the season ending races is a blast to watch. Qualifying at its best usually.

Paul

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

If it's nothing more than bracket racing, why on Earth would you spend all the money, source the good/fancy parts, do all the work, all the travel, all the long weekends, deal with all the rules, restrictions and all the people with a lot more resources than you?

Why not just put something together out of a catalog, save all the other crap, get a bottle of shoe polish and just go bracket racing? They have footbrake classes if you don't like electronics.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

A lot of us entered Stock to move up from the local junk box bracket cars 30,40,50 years ago when they weren't just glorified bracket cars and many of us as I still do built everything or as much as possible ourselves. I started bracket racing on Long Island in 71 and am hoping to have my junk 62 4dr Dodge ready for some local brackets this spring while at the same time I'm finally building a new shortblock for my 63 Stocker which I hope to make some races with this year. As a person who enjoys and has done both local brackets and Stock I still feel they are two different worlds even with Stock being watered down severely in the last 20 years or so and many people no longer building their own stuff. There's really no need to argue IMO, do whatever makes you happy and as many have stated, be happy we can still race.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Checked all those boxes too bracket racing!

Right, like ordering a COPO, Cobra Jet or Drag Pak out of a catalog/online order form as thousands of racers have since 2008.

Meanwhile bracket cars today cost around $40k on the low end to $175k on the high end to build and my 2 cars would cost about $125K each to replace. Nothing cheap about bracket racing today either. Oh fyi, most today don't use shoe polish, electronic dial in boards have been all the rage for at least 15 years.:p

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Gentlemen,

The heading is "How important is qualifying" not bashing Bracket racing or class racing. Both Bracket racing and class racing has its +/-. Race what you enjoy and dont place judgement.

If you have never been 4.40 in 1/8 miile bracket racing dont judge, its bad ***.
If you have never been heads up in a SS modified dont judge, its bad ***.

On Topic: Qualifying is important if you want or not want heads up races as well as preferred opponents.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Agree and I’ll add don’tt judge as well those that post here that are bracket racers and/or throttle stop racers too.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

Maybe someone running one of these can tell us just how it would qualify as delivered, without all of that extra work done.


Stan

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

I've closely watching the factory stock cars since they came on the scene. The qualifying sheets make it crystal clear as to who is racing what was delivered and who is racing something where tweaks and improvements almost doubled the original cost.


Coming back to edit for another example that was in my wheelhouse. Don't forget the year that Enders and Anderson were neck and neck coming into Pomona. Greg managed to qualify 15th as I remember which meant he was in control of his own destiny and would meet Erica first round. Seems like he caught a bit of flack for that. I was impressed that he was able to do it, though yes it was easier to qualify near the bottom instead of a specific place in the middle.

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

IMHO having the ability to move around the Q sheet is a big plus. You may want to gain a possible bye run or avoid a heads-up or avoid racing friends/family first round. That being said... in my usual schlep-rock style when I do try to manipulate the ladder I get the exact scenario I'm trying to avoid! LOL!!:D:D:D

Re: How important is qualifying???????????????
 

You know you can bracket race literally anything, right? I once bracket raced my mom's Ford Freestyle :D

You can spend as much or as little as you want to go bracket racing, that's what makes it the most beautiful form of motorsport in my opinion. Don't gate keep the gateway into our sport by saying you need $40k to enter, it's not true.