New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Okay,?. Where to begin?

I?m a long time bracket racer, very familiar with the racetrack in general. Own a 1967 Plymouth Satellite with a 470 combo; currently goes 10.40?s & whittling away. So I?m not legal, but something may be in my future.

Initial Car questions:
- Stock hood must be in use in both S & SS?? GT classes??
- I see everyone utilize gated shifters. Are ratchet style shifters permitted?
- At what level are automated shift mechanisms allowed?
- Are any engine location mods allowed?
-Where can I find full build rules that are understandable?

Race questions:
- Is the index the slowest you can dial?
-is it only one class in either direction from your factored combo that you can move weight for?
- how does class vs combo eliminations typically work?
- can you have fun with a car that ISN?T .80 under its index?

I see very few big-block combos, mostly small block Camaros & Mustangs (big surprise). Seems like the predominant Mopar combo is the 340 Duster. Is this because of favorable rules? Or just cost driven?

I know building a competitive car must be a long, expensive, and frustrating at times effort. Looks like Most people buy an existing car or pay to have someone else build it. I like doing things myself. Is it even possible on a regular guy budget? My car is somewhat sorted out. could a legal 383 engine combo be competitive at all? I don?t see anyone run the Chrysler 383 in a B-Body?. Help me understand why?

What would be the best approach for a guy whose knowledge is in Big Block Mopars? I?m a low-deck guy with a couple of spare 383 & 400 blocks stuffed away.

Pretty frustrating that a rear wheel drive Cobalt can be GT legal, but a 451 low-deck Chrysler, 347 SBF or 383 SBC combo with all stock components isn?t. Why?

Any and all comments encouraged. Including ?run, before you?re broke and divorced?. 😂😂😂

Thanks in advance for anything interesting.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Not sure what part of the country where you live, BUT do not spend a DIME before you spectate at a few points races/opens. On the west coast Steve Wann and Don Little are the go to Mopar guys. In the Midwest Brad Van Lant is the man….A lot of your questions will be answered when you attend /spectate a points race.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

What MJ said, even if you flew into Gainesville for the Baby Gators or Sky Harbor for the upcoming Phoenix race it would be worth your $ and time. Class racers are very approachable in the pits or even in the lanes if far enough back and will share plenty of insights. Hint: there will be a LOT more cars at the Baby Gators.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Initial Car questions:
- Stock hood must be in use in both S & SS?? Yes
-GT classes?? Yes and No, I believe fresh air engine combos get fresh air hoods but never been fully sure of the rule
- I see everyone utilize gated shifters. Are ratchet style shifters permitted? Yes I have one in my Stocker 5.0
- At what level are automated shift mechanisms allowed? Super Stock allows air shifter and electric shifters. Stock allows e-shift if the combo came with it from the factory.
- Are any engine location mods allowed? I'm not really sure.
-Where can I find full build rules that are understandable? Nhraracer.com on the left side you can download the rulebook and view stock car classification, blueprints, etc.

Race questions:
- Is the index the slowest you can dial? Yes
-is it only one class in either direction from your factored combo that you can move weight for? Yes
- how does class vs combo eliminations typically work? Class is heads up while the eliminator is bracket style, unless paired against a car in your same class, then it is heads up.
- can you have fun with a car that ISN?T .80 under its index? Tons. Remember, if you navigate around cars in your class or run lower in the alphabet then you are dialing most of the time. You likely won't win class eliminations or qualify at Indy but you can still win races and that is the most fun.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Come on in! The rule book is posted online, go to NHRA competition logo above.
Pretty much everything you asked about is covered except comments regarding competitive combos. (Attend races, ask questions)
Be prepared to spend way more than expected. LOL

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

If overtime is available, start workin it!

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Be sure and check out classracerinfo.com, lots of useful information there.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

The combos you see depends on where you’re at. Division 7 is pretty Mopar heavy. Regarding your question on the 383, they’re not any cheaper to build than a 440, go slower, and oftentimes aren’t rated as favorably. There are some really hard running low deck engines out there though. Your ‘67 with a 383 would make a pretty good combination.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

The 383 or 440 are both good choice in a 67 B Body.
Also the 426 Hemi is excellent but it is pricey. My son and I are
very ordinary guys and we have a lot of fun in Stock/SS.

I think you still have my number, and you are welcome to call
any afternoon. I will be happy to chat with you in more
detail when not in public.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

The class combo is like a heads up , it's how far under your index you can run and your reaction time . The tree start will handy cap off the index split of the 2 cars ( just like a bracket race slower leaves first ) . Do you have a copy of nitro joe's ? In Div 1 there are a few BB mopars that run very well. If your car has bin tubed for big tires super stock is your best option. And 8 under isn't a bad please to start .

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Your car is mini tubbed so stock eliminator is out.

Very familiar with BB mopar bracket engines is great, but doesn't mean much for stock or SS racing.
Different as night and day.

There are many good running cars on the west coast in all classes A-H, and a few notables in I-M so you won't go very far with a slow car.

SS is just cubic dollars to run far under. Lots of RPM.

What do you get for setting a national record? About 9 horsepower. LOL

Or stay with bracket racing, money ahead.

Sounds negative, but trying to be realistic.

I didn't even get to the entry fees going up and purses not following, and contingencies going away or no payment. Then the amount of time off work needed to attend races.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

quoted for the the TRUTH and the FACTS! Bravo

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Again, your opinion is irrelevant until you have the ballz to SHOW UP......

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Again, not my opinion, rather 4406mopar's opinion.

Stop being a hater!

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Is it off the index split, or a dial-in on the car?

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Index

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

This sounds like the truth. I do NOT have cubic dollars. Bracket racing is fun. But like most car guys, I?m constantly looking for the next thing. Lots of good suggestions here.
So if I?m looking at this correctly, a 1967 Satellite had a shipping weight of 3534. The 383 four barrel, advertised at 325, is factored at 290 with stock 516 heads. This means the weight break number is 12.18, which slots the combo into SS/K, which is an index of 11.25. To be competitive at all, I’d have to have that combo solidly into the 10?s. That seems crazy to me. With stock heads and a 625 cfm AFB.

Also, Am I correct that under the GT class, you can run an engine combination from another year, such as a 440 six barrel setup in a 1967 chassis??

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Then forget this foolishness.

Until you've won multiple big $ gambler races like the Flings and the Million, "the next thing" is still waiting for you to accomplish and even then, the best racers in the country are still out their every weekend bracket racing NOT class racing, including the guy that has won the biggest payday in ALL of drag racing.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

First of all. Welcome to the classracer forum! It is always great to have other racers see stock/superstock and consider taking the plunge! The more the merrier!

This forum has a lot of folks that have been in your shoes and chose to jump in and race stock or superstock so this is a great first step. I would add to the suggestions from those that have class racing experience here. My brother and I bought a 69 Camaro bracket car once and converted it to a SSBS car. Everything in that car was used except the gas and oil! It was a fun car and it took quite a lot of work to reach the index and finally to run under, but we had fun and learned it by taking that journey.

I would research the car to ensure it can fit a category or can be modified to fit on a reasonable fashion first.
Then consider the best fit for a drivetrain that you are interested in and will fit your plans for expenses.
Keep in mind, very few people shoot for the class winner or record setting combo at first.

It is more about at least being able to run the index.

The path you choose as what’s next is entirely up to you of course, not anyone else.

If you can connect with a person or persons at a points meet near you, that would be helpful. Most that run stock super stock can provide a lot of context to the written word of the rule book.

One thing to consider also is FGT. That class would allow an older style car like yours to run different and more modern combinations. There is a real good 360 Mopar engine combo that fits and would not break the bank.

The 383 sounds pretty cool, but I don?t know how reasonable it is to build from a cost standpoint.
I do know that building an index player is going to be many thousands less $$$ than a max effort.

For me, I have always enjoyed working on my cars to make them quicker and faster. Basically more efficient compared to others in my class.

It isn?t for everyone, but I would encourage you to do some research and meet some of the racers in person and see the cars up close. People are very willing to show off their cars.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

First of all, your welcome to him is about 8 years too late but you nor most here cared about his posts then and only reply now because he’s asking about stock eliminator which is car is not legal for.

Second, most won’t tell him honestly how much money it cost to build their can no mind how much it cost per year to maintain and those that are actually winning races and championships also won’t state the truth as to how much time, effort and money it cost them to be at the top of the game no mind how long it took them to get there.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

You can run the 440-6 or any other combo you like in the GT classes. If the later model Drag Pak engines are your thing you can run FGT. I’d think there’s enough guys running those throughout the country that you’d be able to find a reasonably priced, gently used piece that’ll get you in the game.

Don’t listen to the forum troll, either. If he really thought class racing is as bad as he says he’d find somewhere else to cry about all his “haters.”

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Says another hater and liar that claims to have blocked my posts because he too can’t handle opinions and advice that differs from his meanwhile it’s no surprise he’s a liar, he defends scumbags for a living.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

The ignore user function also comes highly recommended.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

It's almost like classracer users want to engage with people who are actually interested in class racing. hmmm

I've got about 14k in my program (10 for the car and engine parts, 2 for engine assembly, and 2 for miscellaneous parts I had to acquire to get the car race ready. I already had a trailer and tools, which it sounds like this fellow does as well), for clarity. I'm not the fastest, but I'm under my index and far enough down in the alphabet that heads up runs are not something I'm worried about. Having an absolute blast and just started a year ago.

Entry fees are around $200 +/- $20 depending on which division you run in. Payout is not amazing for the price, around $2k to win with $100 per paying contingency sticker on the car at divisionals, $300 per sticker at nationals. I won a national event in S/G in 2023, was not stickered up great, and still cleared about $4500 (and a really awesome wally).

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Dawson, my son and I ARE class racers and we have won numerous “awesome” Wallys for class wins, Division Championships and National event wins.

That said, your $14k investment in your program will not be nearly enough to transform the OP’s bracket car into a legal, competitive, stocker much less a competitive super stocker!

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

I just wanted to share my investment for the sake of "being transparent on real costs." The money I've spent on my program is a known, the potential money this fella will spend is an unknown.

And by class racer, I mean STK/SS racers are interested in helping and advising people who are interested in STK/SS racing. That is the thread we are in, anyway. Sorry for the confusion lol.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

The 915 small valve is a better head than the 516 for stock, in SS the Stg5 head is probably the best option.The 60s 383 AFB which is the same as the 426 Street Wedge can work in Stock but it's a bit too small for any real power in SS. I have tested 2 of them on my flow bench and they flowed 566 and 582, I'm guessing their original rating was 575, the 582 one with a large 65 Monaco air cleaner base flowed 598 CFM. The 440 would need a full cage in SS as a GTX or in GT. If you don't have a cage the 70-71 383 would be best for GT as it can fit GT/LA which is not typically a very populated class. The AVS can flow close to 650 with a good base and the 383 Holleys that I checked were 724 and 746 without putting a base on them, both have the same HP rating in SS with GT being a bit higher. None of these will go .8 under without great heads, big money, Pro trans etc. The 70 383 will go under the index in GT with good heads, intake and ideal cam.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

I have done fairly well with my Superstock Aspen
SS/LA and SS/MA. It usually runs a couple tenths or
less under the index.

However, it always runs at least the index.
I do not remember every having a Heads Up
race in eliminations the last fifteen years. They are few
and far between. It was the late Larry Harroll racecar
that I bought with the engine apart for $3,500.00 from his
Widow after it had been sitting for decades.

As long as you can run the index in bad weather or a strong head
wind there is absolutely no imperative to go any faster except
your personal drive.

My son Jon runs SS/KA in his Duster and may get a heads up
in eliminations once a year. He actually welcomes them but
they are still scarce and hard to find.

John Winslow for many years has run a 426 in SS/JA with good
success and it is saddled with the small Carter and a bigger engine.
than the 383.

There are some workarounds to improve that carb but you would
need to call me in private for info.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

There you go, so in addition to the OP?s car not being legal for stock eliminator, the engine doesn’t have the best/right heads and as for super stock, nothing about his car/combo is right for building a competitive super stocker, no mind the need for “big money” to attempt to do it.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Boy: I would pay $100.00 cash money to see you call Jared a
liar to his face.

BTW: Jared served as a very capable and respected prosecutor in his
area of the country for a number of years. Every person has a right
to a competent defense and a presumption of innocence in our nation.

Nowhere in my post did I mention Stock Eliminator in my above post.
The 915 heads or the superseded legal heads are a good basis for
building an engine for either stock or SS.

However, I have seen multiple Mopars in that year range having been converted
back to Stock wheel tubs and spring location from SS. I have seen many
383 and 426 cars raced in Stock competitively included Jared's car
for a number of years.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Jared,
He is just a pathetic, insecure, lonely person.

What he fails to grasp, is that his opinion is probable only correct for one person himself.

Stan

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Clearly NOT insecure, definitely NOT lonely but we expect nothing less from this pathetic old man who has nothing of relevance to add to any thread because he has no 1st hand experience, never raced in any class, never tuned any car competing on a drag strip and whose replies here gather no attention, no traction for his baseless theories based on a computer program!

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

He is, claimed he blocked my posts, he didn’t, Liar! I ain’t scared and I’m easy to find and you just another forum drama queen!

Now let’s get back to the OP’s question/interest in stock/super stock with his bracket car that is neither legal for stock eliminator nor the right car/combo for super stock.

Newsflash, it’s ok to tell someone like the OP that his car/combo isn’t right for S/SS without spending a lot of money and time to make it legal and competitive. THAT’S how you help someone make the right decision.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Kindly let me know If you do come out to some
West Coast races please Ed.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Clearly you have no idea how things work as usual. :eek:

Your posts are only blocked if he is logged in. But he doesn't have to login, if all he wants to do is take a quick look at what has been posted. If he does that he sees everything.

Stan

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Not ever going to happen, no good reason to travel west of the Mississippi but too many good reasons for you to come out to some east coast races:p

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

All I see is: "This message is hidden because 1320racer is on your ignore list."

But he repeats himself a lot, so the messages are predictable. Arguing with him is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon: he knocks the pieces over, craps all over the board, and struts around like he won anyway.

As for the Mopar combo's, I don't recommend the small Carter combo for anyone in SS. In Stock, it seems to be rated right and capable of going fast, but the additional help the rules offer in SS doesn't benefit something that's got a cork on top of the intake manifold. A 440-4 or the 383-4 would be my choice if I were interested in a GT combination.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

A Mopar combination I like for SS/GT is the '62 383/343 because of the two 4bbl Carters. The GT factor with OEM heads is 330 and 340 with Aftermarket heads. With aftermarket heads and 2x4 intake it could be a killer piece.
As far as I know nobody has run this combination in GT and can be protected with care.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

Gary Moore had one he'd run in his AH car, occasionally. That's the only one I ever knew about. Ran well.

Re: New - Lots of Questions. Help me understand S&SS
 

I thought that Gary might have run that motor. Has anyone bought that 'Cuda? One of my favorites.

Did the Protrans Smith Daytona run that motor?