Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

As I've posted in other places on here, I recently purchased an older built GT/PA car that I'm just starting to go through and verify what I have. As far as carburetors are concerned, am I correct that as long as it is the same brand (Autolite 4100 in this case), and has the correct venturi and throttle plate sizes called for, manufacturer date code doesn't matter? In this case, my engine is a 1964 based 289, but the current carb is a C6 PF (1966 289 carb). Has the correct size centuries and throttle plates as the '64 should have. I know to some of you that have been doing this a long time, these questions probably seem silly. I would never consider cheating, but I would hate to show up at a race and be disqualified because I didn't fully understand the assignment. So thanks in advance for answering the dumb questions.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

What you need to do is contact the tech department in Glendora. That's the ONLY opinion that counts. You "probably" have a carburetor you can use. Just get it in writing.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Then that's what I'll do. Thanks

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

The part # and codes on the carburetor have not
been a concern for many years now.

The specs on the other hand certainly still are
the concern.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

This is what I thought, because the rulebook specifically states:"Replacement carburetors permitted provided they are
same model, type, throttle bore, and venturi size. "

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

What combo are you running? As a general statement, the Ford combo is the 1.08 carb and the Merc combo is the 1.12. More to it than that but that should at least get you started on figuring out what you need.

Jim Caughlin
SS6019

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

It's currently set up as the Ford combo with a 1.08 Autolite. Just not the date code, part number listed for the '64. The carb I have is listed for the '66, with the same specs that the '64 calls for. I also have another carb that needs to be built that is listed for the '64 combo, but it's listed as a manual carb (my car is an auto) As far as I can tell, there is no difference in the venturi size or throttle blade size from the 2 carbs I have compared to the one the combo lists. Everywhere else in the rulebook (heads, pistons, rods, crank, etc, it)specifies NHRA Listed replacement. The carb is the only rule that states that a replacement is allowed as long as it is the same type, venturi size, throttle blade size, etc, which makes me think it's ok. I was just curious if anyone else had already dealt with this that could shed some light. I can do as suggested above, and contact Glendora.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Just make sure you have the correct bores on venturi and throttle blade. The date code, etc isn't an issue, just make sure you have the correct casting with the 1.08 or 1.12 ID on the bowl. For the most part the 1.12 Merc combos have been pretty beat up, most all of the cars you will find are running the 1.08 Ford combo in either SS or GT classes. People are also running the '68 Merc 302 with the Holley carb. It seems like the most preferable combo at the moment is the '64 Ford 1.08 carb combo.

Jim

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Since this is a "get my feet wet in Super Stock" type of deal,and an older build, I'm just going to run it in it's current form. I'm just trying to go through it and make certain everything is still legal. I'll have the engine apart in the next few weeks. Then I'll be able to verify everything internally is still legal. As long as it is ( or can be made legal under current rules without spending thousands of dollars), then I want to give SS a shot. Otherwise, I'm just going to bracket race it. Ether way, we'll have a lot of fun.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Sorry Double post

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Dude, You're over-thinking this, IMO.
Sounds counter productive to tear it apart and eye- ball the parts. If you go that far, it makes sense to at least hone and ring it. Same for timing chain, bearings and other wear items.
Instead, I suggest doing an external check of things..Leak down, compression check, check seat pressure of the springs, cut the filter open, etc.
If it looks okay , put some fresh plugs and oil in it. Take it to the track and see if runs the index, before you dump a bunch of money into it.
Where do you plan on racing it? Combos ? Divs? Opens? Believe me, nobody cares about the "legality" of another Fox body that runs a few tenths under.
The only place you'd ever get torn down is at Indy. Trust me..you ain't ready for that scene.
Again ,IMO ,and I've been doing this for more than a few years ;-)

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

I think he's just like me, want to get into it but am concerned I'll be illegal or do some obvious faux pas without knowing it.

"overthinking it" DEFINATELY fits me!!

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

There's no tech.
Belts, helmet, weight, fuel...maybe..That's it ;-)

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

As I've already stated in my build thread, I'm going to pull it apart and hone it, new rings and bearings, valve job, new springs, etc. I'll cc the heads, verify stroke and rod length, and run the cam through the Cam Doctor and make sure what it is. Also go through the trans and rearend, just to be sure. And lastly, going to bring the rear suspension into this decade. The engine was built in 2014, I want to verify condition of everything as much as legality. I think it will be 2 weeks well spent, and I would do that even if I was only going to bracket race it. Last year the car was brought out for test and tune. Supposedly was at legal weight, on old slicks, and ran .6 under GT/PA index. We'll see, soon enough. This isn't my first foray into drag racing, just first time into Stock/ Super Stock. I grew up with my Dad building and racing legal gassers. My first drag car was a B/MC VW bug, when that class still existed under the modified/gas umbrella, and they ran NHRA classes locally on a weekly basis,before bracket racing took over. Been involved in everything from NMRA heads up stuff to Pro Mod since then. But my local heros were guys like Mike Saye, Bill Howell, Everett Keesley, Ronnie Courtney, Boobie Hornaday, etc., and I've always wanted to run a Stocker, or Super Stocker because of them. I'm just trying to get a handle on how the rules are interpreted, from people like you that have been running the class for awhile. Thanks

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Obviously, I'm behind on my reading...
There are quite a few guys here that will help you spend your money, but it sounds like you've already got a handle on that. ;-)
Good luck

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Not-fer-nuthin' but........ you bought a running car in the middle of the season and you're going to take it apart to see if it's "legal"?
That sounds kinda counter-productive to me. IMHO, run the car as-is (it was bought as a legal car right?) and see what it has to tell you and learn from that. You'll have all winter to take it apart and freshen it or "improve" it.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Yeah, what he said.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Wesley Roberson is working more events and training some of the new tech officials.

Pretty refreshing to see some checks going on again.

I agree, I would not expect a full on teardown at a points meet, but check the obvious safety stuff.

4 cars were booted due to loose ballast at sgmp race 1. They all fixed it and raced in race 2

They later checked some carbs and head casting numbers and rocker arms for stockers.

They also checked me for a clutchless.

They checked wheelbase on some SS cars.

Great way to tighten things up and get some training done.

I would look for more of this.

I heard there were checks at the Earlville Iowa race as well

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Everybody has a different situation as to why something works for them. As I posted in my build thread, I have Stage 4 Prostate Cancer, and just had to have spinal surgery 3 weeks ago to remove a tumor that was pressing against my spinal cord and basically paralyzing my legs. Surgery corrected that, but I'm still several weeks out from being able to race. So what better time than to go through the car, while I'm sidelined? And while part of it is to verify legality, the main part is just to make sure that everything is in good shape. There is not a log on this engine showing runs, and it was built in 2014. I'd rather do the maintenance now, than have it come apart for something I could have prevented. It won't take long to do, my 2 sons are involved in the physical labor part, and I have a full machine shop at my disposal, so no down time there.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

I appreciate your opinion, and in different circumstances would be inclined to agree with you. I'm not spending much money to freshen it. Just the aforementioned parts, so a couple thousand at most. (cheaper than building a new engine if this one comes apart for something maintenance could have prevented) Labor and machine work are free. I already have all brand new suspension parts sitting here that I had bought for another project , so no wait time there. And I still have a few weeks down time anyway, waiting on my back to heal.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

And anyone that knows me, knows that my luck is the type that I would show up at the 1st race, get checked and disqualified. I'll sleep better knowing what I have, lol

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

The only thing I learned from a friend who runs a Ford SB is you need a really good pin for the cam timing gear .

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

It needs to be a GOOD quality bolt, torqued correctly. Most of the good cams already have a larger (7/16) bolt requirement.
The dowel does not keep the gear from moving, clamp force does.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Tony, you don't owe anyone an explanation of what you wanna do to your race car. Do what you feel needs to be done. I would go thru a car I just bought too, just to see what I have. Sorry to hear about your cancer, my best friend was diagnosed with stage 4 prostate cancer 5 years ago, still going strong today. I will be praying for you. Good luck with car. I'm glad it's a Ford!! LOL




Bret Velde
2003 I/SA

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

I?ve got a new Jesel belt drive sitting on the shelf from a past project. Should be fine😁

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

I was one of the cars that was looked at at the National Open at Earlville, and I was #2 qualifier for both races that weekend. Anyone racing Stock or SS this is what we signed up for. If that means taking it apart to check its legal then you better make sure its legal, and be ready if asked. We need more checks that what we are racing is per the rules. Otherwise go bracket race. I agree with Jim, we need more tech checking cars.


Suggesting the guy that bought someone elses car is legal, and not checking it seems risky to me. The lack of a rear firewall would be one of the items I would take another look at on your car.

Sean

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Thank you Brett. I appreciate the kind words of encouragement. And that’s great to hear that your friend is doing so well. That’s my goal, but either way , I’m going to enjoy the ride as long as I can��

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

Sean, it actually does have a firewall. The cell is recessed into the spare tire area, and it has an aluminum cover that Dzus fastens over the top of the wheel well, covering it completely. So no issues there. But there are some things I see that I know are not legal. Like it has an electric vacuum pump connected to the valve covers. I also am not certain that the current rods are listed in the legal replacements. ( Because truthfully, I’m not certain what they are). The build sheet part numbers don’t match anything I know of. And I want to CC the heads and make certain they’re legal. I don’t think the car was built illegal, but there have been rules changes since 2014, and this car had been caught in a time warp. It’s been sitting for the most part. I have to learn how NHRA polices the Stock and Super Stock cars, but I will rest easier knowing that every thing is up to date and legal. Thanks for the observations.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

I hope that after you get it apart that you can find enough parts to get it back together in a timely fashion.

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

I should have most of it already on the shelf. I?ve been messing with these sbf a long time. I have stacks of new coated bearings, gaskets, new (legal) rods, etc. I already have a set of the valve springs they have listed as being in it. The only thing I don?t have is piston rings, because I need to see what it has now. I also have a brand new ?68 based 302 shortblock sitting here that I was already building when I bought the car. New Boss block, Eagle crank(again the legal one, took me 2 years to find it lol). Good rods and pistons, just no heads yet. Looking for a set of the NHRA legal aluminum castings that aren?t made anymore. I was going to build a car, then this one showed up. So again, not really concerned about getting it back together. This thread got so far off track , lol. I just wanted to know if the carb had to have the exact casting number as listed, or as long as it was the same type, venture size and throttle size, would it be legal, lol

Re: Rules Verification for a Newbie
 

This thread got so far off track. I really just wanted to know if my carb was legal. It has the correct Venturi size and throttle blade size, just not the correct 64 casting number. Otherwise, it’s identical to the ‘64 carb specs. And as I quoted from the rule book, it’s a little vague, unlike other sections that specify. Thanks everyone.