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bill dedman · 12-25-2009, 01:29 AM

Indyracer said: "Here's all the reason you need:"

THIS is what Indyracer thinks is a reason NOT to change to a worse red light system:

He said:
1) This is racing. Quicker car gets the advantage. So first red light loses.
2) This is racing. We hate sandbaggers. So worst breakout loses.

Let's look at those statements, individually, in an effort to see what he thinks the reasons NOT to change the red light rule are:

1 "This is racing."

I don't think that statement has anything to do with the contention that a rule needs to be changed. Or, much of anything we didn't already know...

2 Then, he said, "Quicker car gets the advantage."

The whole idea in writing rules for the aforementioned "racing" is to create a "rules" environment that is as fair to everybody as it can be. That's why racing HAS rules. Is "Quicker car gets the advantage" in the spirit of that concept, one that attempts to create an environment wherein NOBODY should get an advantage?

Indyracer, did somebody tell you that somewhere it is written that the faster car should get an advantage? At any time? Anywhere??? Show it to me... It's not in the NHRA rulebook. The fist red light situation was created by default (they didn't know how to fix it) in 1963.... maybe even before you were born...

You failed to come up with a legitimate and logical reason not to change it (first red light)... I said a "legitimate and logical reason"...
"Quicker car gets the advantage" is not even a reason... it's just the status quo.

3. Then, Indyracer said, "So first red light loses."

I don't find a reason there, either; just the lopsided status quo, again... Everybody knows that with the current system, the first red light ALWAYS loses.... That's the problem.

4. Then he again,said, "This is racing."

Is that a reason not to change the first red light rule???

No.

5. He then said, "We hate sandbaggers." in reference to "worst breakout loses."

. Nobody is talking about changing the breakout rule.... There's no advantage to any car under the present rule; why would anyone want to change that? They wouldn't.... so once again, you bring up something that's not pertinent to this discussion.

Even if there WAS something wrong with the breakout rule (and, there's NOT,) tell me what you think sandbagging has to do with breaking out? Handicap racing is all brakelight racing, anyway; what would sandbagging have to do with that? Nothing...

6 He wrote, finally, "So, worst breakout loses.

I don't think ANYBODY has a problem with that, but it has NOTHING to do with the worse red light rule...

What are you smokin'???????

I broke NO promise, because you presented nothing that was even CLOSE to an argument or reason NOT to change what we have, now. You told me what we are doing... and that in doing it like we do, it gives the advantage to the second car to leave, but where in that, is a reason NOT to change the rule?

There's not one. It's not that "I don't like the answer" because it doesn't suit my opinion, I don't like the answer because it answers questions not asked, while totally failing to address the question that WAS asked, which was:

"Can anybody give me a legitimate and logical reason to NOT change the first red light rule."

I'm still waiting for an answer to that. Simply stating how it works under the present ules is in no way, an answer as to why not to change it.

I think I'm going to have a long wait....

Thanks for listening, if you really WERE listening...

12-25-2009, 01:29 AM	#82
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Think about this......... Indyracer said: "Here's all the reason you need:" THIS is what Indyracer thinks is a reason NOT to change to a worse red light system: He said: 1) This is racing. Quicker car gets the advantage. So first red light loses. 2) This is racing. We hate sandbaggers. So worst breakout loses. Let's look at those statements, individually, in an effort to see what he thinks the reasons NOT to change the red light rule are: 1 "This is racing." I don't think that statement has anything to do with the contention that a rule needs to be changed. Or, much of anything we didn't already know... 2 Then, he said, "Quicker car gets the advantage." The whole idea in writing rules for the aforementioned "racing" is to create a "rules" environment that is as fair to everybody as it can be. That's why racing HAS rules. Is "Quicker car gets the advantage" in the spirit of that concept, one that attempts to create an environment wherein NOBODY should get an advantage? Indyracer, did somebody tell you that somewhere it is written that the faster car should get an advantage? At any time? Anywhere??? Show it to me... It's not in the NHRA rulebook. The fist red light situation was created by default (they didn't know how to fix it) in 1963.... maybe even before you were born... You failed to come up with a legitimate and logical reason not to change it (first red light)... I said a "legitimate and logical reason"... "Quicker car gets the advantage" is not even a reason... it's just the status quo. 3. Then, Indyracer said, "So first red light loses." I don't find a reason there, either; just the lopsided status quo, again... Everybody knows that with the current system, the first red light ALWAYS loses.... That's the problem. 4. Then he again,said, "This is racing." Is that a reason not to change the first red light rule??? No. 5. He then said, "We hate sandbaggers." in reference to "worst breakout loses." . Nobody is talking about changing the breakout rule.... There's no advantage to any car under the present rule; why would anyone want to change that? They wouldn't.... so once again, you bring up something that's not pertinent to this discussion. Even if there WAS something wrong with the breakout rule (and, there's NOT,) tell me what you think sandbagging has to do with breaking out? Handicap racing is all brakelight racing, anyway; what would sandbagging have to do with that? Nothing... 6 He wrote, finally, "So, worst breakout loses. I don't think ANYBODY has a problem with that, but it has NOTHING to do with the worse red light rule... What are you smokin'??????? I broke NO promise, because you presented nothing that was even CLOSE to an argument or reason NOT to change what we have, now. You told me what we are doing... and that in doing it like we do, it gives the advantage to the second car to leave, but where in that, is a reason NOT to change the rule? There's not one. It's not that "I don't like the answer" because it doesn't suit my opinion, I don't like the answer because it answers questions not asked, while totally failing to address the question that WAS asked, which was: "Can anybody give me a legitimate and logical reason to NOT change the first red light rule." I'm still waiting for an answer to that. Simply stating how it works under the present ules is in no way, an answer as to why not to change it. I think I'm going to have a long wait.... Thanks for listening, if you really WERE listening... __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 12-25-2009 at 01:37 AM.