CLASS RACER FORUM - View Single Post

bill dedman · 11-26-2007, 12:24 AM

Here's some science fiction that wouldn't be so bad, except evey word is true:

After having tranmission failures at 29,000 and 69,000 miles (both fixed under warranty) my '90 Grand Caravan's "Ultradrive" (A-604) automatic went into "LIMP-HOME" mode (2nd-gear, only) at 135K miles...66,000 miles after its last replacement at my friendly dealership.

I take it to my dealer, and asked if they could repair it.

Dealer: "It's a rebuilt; we don't work on rebuilts."

Me: "You are the one who rebuilt it."

Dealer: Doesn't matter... we don't work on rebuilts. We'll replace it with a new transmission.

Me: How much?

Dealer "$2,100.00, including converter..

Me: It doesn't need a new converter.

Dealer: All new tranmisssions get a new converter; may have detritus in the old converter that could harm the new transmission.

Me I'll be right back.

Dealer: OK... I'll be here.

I "sprint" over to the parts department

Counter man: Can I help you?

Me: How much will you charge me for a new A-604 out th door?

Counter man: We don't have "new" transmissions; only rebuilts.

Me: How much for a rebuilt?

Counter Man: $1,600.00.

Me: Can you order me a "NEW" transmission; I don't mind waiting a few days??? Don't want a rebuilt.

Counter man; I TOLD you; we don't have, nor do we have any way to GET, a "NEW" transmission... only rebuilts.

Me: Thank you for your time.

"Sprinting" back to Dealer spokes-person... pant, pant, pant...gasp...

Dealer: Can I help you (looking at me like he'd never seen me before, in his entire life.)

Me: Yes; your parts person just informed me that he cannot obtain a "NEW": A-604...

Dealer,: So??? (Obviously not remembering what he'd told me, 5 minutes ago).

Me: You told me you were going to install a "NEW" A-604 in my Caravan for $2100....

Dealer, yes...

Me; Where are you going to get it???

Dealer: We get all our transmission from the parts department.

Me: HELLO.... He JUST told me that he cannot in any way, shape, or form GET a "New" transmission like I need...

Dealer: Well, it's a rebuilt, but it's a FACTORY rebuild...

Me; So, you won't work on the transmission in my Caravan because it's a rebuilt, but you'll replace it with ANOTHER rebuilt???

Dealer: silence... loking at ceiling, now...

Me: WHICH YOU WON'T work on, when it comes back "sick"???

Dealer, loooking at floor... saying nothing.

Me, exiting Mopar dealership for the LAST TIME...

Post-script:
One thing that happens to these transmissions is this (happened to mine 3 times):

These A-604 transmissions are electronicaly controlled. The computer monitors the shift action each time a shift is made, noting how long it takes for the clutch pack to fill, thereby, effecting the shift (in micro-seconds.)
As the face material wears off the clutch disks, it takes more fluid to displace the missing material. This takes more time... filling the swept area.
At some point, the computer decides. "This clutch pack is too worn to function correctly... too much material gone... it's worn out."

That decision by the computer translates into action by the program that disables any forward gear but second... called "LIMP-HOME-MODE"
No first, third or fourth gear...

The dealership mechanics have a reader that can perform a "clutch-volume-index test" that will tell them how worn these clutches are (from data relative to how long the clutch-pack takes to apply." It's a test that can be performed with the transmission in the car; just drive in and hook it up.

Armed with the data from that test, the technician can deduce whether the reason this transmission went ito LIMP HOME was that the facing material is gone off the specific clutch pack he tested (he can test them all.)

What would it take to fix a transmission with this "worn clutch" malady? Not much...

Remove tranny... disassemble, and replace clutch disks in the offending clutch pack(s) (and any others that were questionable), renew seals, and button it up and put it back in the car.

But, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
"WE DON'T WORK ON REBUILDS (even though we were the ones who rebuilt it!)" says the dealership...

I'll race a MOPAR 'til the day I die, but NEVER buy another (new) one...

Fool me once, shame on you...
Fool me twice? Ain't gonna happen... They're STILL USING THAT TRANSMISSION...

Take a Consumers' Report magazine (annual auto issue) and look at the frequency of repair records for Mopar transmissions. Sad.......

I had a 1980 Ford Fairmont that I drove ~215,000~ miles (that's no typo) and never even changed the fluid (much less the filter) in its C-3, and it shifted as well the day I got rid of it, as the day I got it (Hertz rent-a-Car) at 18,000 miles...

I am not proud of that, but I was in my "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mode back then...
I only mention the Fairmont for comparison as to what a transmission CAN be...

11-26-2007, 12:24 AM	#15
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Chrysler; shame on you... Here's some science fiction that wouldn't be so bad, except evey word is true: After having tranmission failures at 29,000 and 69,000 miles (both fixed under warranty) my '90 Grand Caravan's "Ultradrive" (A-604) automatic went into "LIMP-HOME" mode (2nd-gear, only) at 135K miles...66,000 miles after its last replacement at my friendly dealership. I take it to my dealer, and asked if they could repair it. Dealer: "It's a rebuilt; we don't work on rebuilts." Me: "You are the one who rebuilt it." Dealer: Doesn't matter... we don't work on rebuilts. We'll replace it with a new transmission. Me: How much? Dealer "$2,100.00, including converter.. Me: It doesn't need a new converter. Dealer: All new tranmisssions get a new converter; may have detritus in the old converter that could harm the new transmission. Me I'll be right back. Dealer: OK... I'll be here. I "sprint" over to the parts department Counter man: Can I help you? Me: How much will you charge me for a new A-604 out th door? Counter man: We don't have "new" transmissions; only rebuilts. Me: How much for a rebuilt? Counter Man: $1,600.00. Me: Can you order me a "NEW" transmission; I don't mind waiting a few days??? Don't want a rebuilt. Counter man; I TOLD you; we don't have, nor do we have any way to GET, a "NEW" transmission... only rebuilts. Me: Thank you for your time. "Sprinting" back to Dealer spokes-person... pant, pant, pant...gasp... Dealer: Can I help you (looking at me like he'd never seen me before, in his entire life.) Me: Yes; your parts person just informed me that he cannot obtain a "NEW": A-604... Dealer,: So??? (Obviously not remembering what he'd told me, 5 minutes ago). Me: You told me you were going to install a "NEW" A-604 in my Caravan for $2100.... Dealer, yes... Me; Where are you going to get it??? Dealer: We get all our transmission from the parts department. Me: HELLO.... He JUST told me that he cannot in any way, shape, or form GET a "New" transmission like I need... Dealer: Well, it's a rebuilt, but it's a FACTORY rebuild... Me; So, you won't work on the transmission in my Caravan because it's a rebuilt, but you'll replace it with ANOTHER rebuilt??? Dealer: silence... loking at ceiling, now... Me: WHICH YOU WON'T work on, when it comes back "sick"??? Dealer, loooking at floor... saying nothing. Me, exiting Mopar dealership for the LAST TIME... Post-script: One thing that happens to these transmissions is this (happened to mine 3 times): These A-604 transmissions are electronicaly controlled. The computer monitors the shift action each time a shift is made, noting how long it takes for the clutch pack to fill, thereby, effecting the shift (in micro-seconds.) As the face material wears off the clutch disks, it takes more fluid to displace the missing material. This takes more time... filling the swept area. At some point, the computer decides. "This clutch pack is too worn to function correctly... too much material gone... it's worn out." That decision by the computer translates into action by the program that disables any forward gear but second... called "LIMP-HOME-MODE" No first, third or fourth gear... The dealership mechanics have a reader that can perform a "clutch-volume-index test" that will tell them how worn these clutches are (from data relative to how long the clutch-pack takes to apply." It's a test that can be performed with the transmission in the car; just drive in and hook it up. Armed with the data from that test, the technician can deduce whether the reason this transmission went ito LIMP HOME was that the facing material is gone off the specific clutch pack he tested (he can test them all.) What would it take to fix a transmission with this "worn clutch" malady? Not much... Remove tranny... disassemble, and replace clutch disks in the offending clutch pack(s) (and any others that were questionable), renew seals, and button it up and put it back in the car. But, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO "WE DON'T WORK ON REBUILDS (even though we were the ones who rebuilt it!)" says the dealership... I'll race a MOPAR 'til the day I die, but NEVER buy another (new) one... Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice? Ain't gonna happen... They're STILL USING THAT TRANSMISSION... Take a Consumers' Report magazine (annual auto issue) and look at the frequency of repair records for Mopar transmissions. Sad....... I had a 1980 Ford Fairmont that I drove ~215,000~ miles (that's no typo) and never even changed the fluid (much less the filter) in its C-3, and it shifted as well the day I got rid of it, as the day I got it (Hertz rent-a-Car) at 18,000 miles... I am not proud of that, but I was in my "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mode back then... I only mention the Fairmont for comparison as to what a transmission CAN be... __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 11-26-2007 at 12:41 AM.