Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Broome
Okay, I have lots of questions.
I understand Comp "can" be a teardown class, but considering all of the fuss about valve cover location/studs in SS/AA a while back, there aren't ANY modifications that might slide through in Comp? Or do you anticipate going through a full Super Stock teardown after qualifying for Comp? That's the only way Comp racers are ensuring that AH/SM is adhering to "engine/car rules are lifted verbatim from SS", not tweaked for performance here and there.
Truth is, Comp racers got tired of new classes getting a "gift" index and AH/SM and FS/SM suffered because of it. I see where you mentioned that the index should be where the top running cars should be able to run .65 under right off the bat, really? Yet you propose a 9.05 index? 9.05 minus .65 equals 8.40 by my math, Wolkwitz ran what, 8.44, at the Gators? I suppose that .61 under your proposed index right off the bat wouldn't be a gift, right?
Do you need to run .65 under to win Comp? How far under did Bruno have to run at Topeka? Does Rampy need to run .61 under to be competitive?
If the SS/AH cars really wanted to run Comp, they needed to show up at Divisional Races to run Comp. Those performance standards would give them some leverage for a better index. How many have done that this year? Or do you only expect cars to show up at Divisionals that have a chance to win? If you show up at a Divisional to get grade points in SS/AH do you still run the car like a "mini pro stock"?
Now, is the current AH/SM index too hard at 8.75? I would agree, that's too fast. What should it be? Slower, but how much? At 3170 lbs AH/SM is 7.14 pounds per cubic inch, A/SM is 7.5 pounds per inch....with an 8.45 index. For those who don't do math, that's .39 heavier and .30 faster than the "too fast" AH/SM index! Maybe A/SM needs an adjustment too! Is there a SM class with an index close to your proposed 9.05 index? Oh, D/SM is. That's 9.5 pounds per inch with little carburetors and head limitations, you could add only 1050 pounds to get to the index you want. The only precise way to determine the correct index for AH/SM is with more performance data. The only way to generate that data is?
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Let me see if I can answer them for you
Yes, if you hit the index or set a record as an AH/SM you can expect to get a full super stock style teardown. That is straight from NHRA tech dept.
No, I do not believe a top running hemi car being able to run .65 under is a gift. It is a highly refined combo that, again, will not "magically" go faster as a comp car. And that is the beauty of comp. If one of these cars does go .65 under in elims, then the cic starts to come into affect and will in turn self regulate the index. That is the basis of comp.
Yes, I do agree with you that they need to actually run the class as it sits so that they can show in real world conditions that the index is off. Without doing a ton of research, there have been several this year that have competed. Wolkwitz, comella, welker, Bucky, pancake, and I think a few west coast guys have. I know several of my other customers considered it, but elected to stay in SS b3cause of the index.
I can only speak for my current customers, but everyone I know runs their car like they are trying to set a record every time they go to the water box. Only exception is probably comellas dart. They don't run it as hard but they are chasing points (and kicking butt!) And they have the red cuda to run shootouts with.
First, minimum weight for ss/ah is 3200. Second, you can't compare a/sm and ah/sm. A/sm is allowed two dominators, any port work, titanium valves, aluminum rods, billet cranks, vacuum pumps, longer wheelie bars, 5 speeds, carbon brakes, etc. Just the 5 speed alone is probably a tenth.....
As far as where is the data? There is 50 years of it. Or the last ten years of hemi shootout at indy. We compiled the data of the last 4 years of the shootout at indy versus comp qualifying and submitted that to nhra. When you look at that info, same track, weather, track, etc, it's pretty obvious where the index needs to be.