Frozen block

BIZMANRACING · 02-25-2009, 03:06 PM

a little problem happened to me the other day. i went and got my racecar out of storage. it sat all winter in the yard in the trailer. when i opened the door to the trailer under the car was a nice little 1 5/8 freeze plu from my motor. looks like it the one of the 2 in the rear of the block.

all freeze plugs have been pushed out "some" only one is all the way out. my question is what are the odds that i did damage to this block? how do i know one way or the other.

my intensions are to pull it. then replace all the freeze out plugs with new ones and pressure test the motor in place with a radiator test pump. if it holds 13 lbs i'm figuring i'm good to go. any other inputs. sides i'm a dumb ***.

news flash to self. half draining the raditor in the middle of winter filling the remainer with antifreeze and then running the electric water pump dosn't do a good enough job. who knew.

signed. screwed before he got started, and never kissed.

Michael Pliska · 02-25-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIZMANRACING

a little problem happened to me the other day. i went and got my racecar out of storage. it sat all winter in the yard in the trailer. when i opened the door to the trailer under the car was a nice little 1 5/8 freeze plu from my motor. looks like it the one of the 2 in the rear of the block.

all freeze plugs have been pushed out "some" only one is all the way out. my question is what are the odds that i did damage to this block? how do i know one way or the other.

my intensions are to pull it. then replace all the freeze out plugs with new ones and pressure test the motor in place with a radiator test pump. if it holds 13 lbs i'm figuring i'm good to go. any other inputs. sides i'm a dumb ***.

news flash to self. half draining the raditor in the middle of winter filling the remainer with antifreeze and then running the electric water pump dosn't do a good enough job. who knew.

signed. screwed before he got started, and never kissed.

You probably don't want to know my experience (which was very similar). Mine had a huge crack in the lifter valley (350 Chevy). I JB-Welded it up, and it still runs to this day.

Regards,

dak · 02-25-2009, 03:41 PM

I did the same thing a couple of years ago. Maybe I go lucky, never had a problem with a crack. What I did have a problem with was I did not change out the frost plugs and lost 2 of them the first time I had the motor up to temp.

Replace the frost plugs. Pressure test it, if it holds I think you'd be good.

About the draining the rad and adding anti freeze. I rented out my garage to some buddies to store their race cars 1 year and during a real cold snap 1 of the guys showed up just to check the rad/water. He drained the rad, added antifreeze ran the pump to mix it up and the freezing temp of the coolant did not go below freezing... It baffled us for a bit.

We fired the car up, got it up to temp and then retested the coolant and then it regestered below zero. I think that the anti freeze and water need heat to mix properly.

R&S Motorsports · 02-25-2009, 07:21 PM

I did have a engine block that cracked. It didnt crack for the same reason but I also JB welded it and as far as I know the guy I sold the motor to still runs it that way today.

reknapp52 · 02-25-2009, 07:29 PM

Have you pulled the oil dipstick and checked it? If it shows about 3 quarts above the full line, you've got cracks inside, probably in the lifter valley area.

buzzinhalfdozen · 02-26-2009, 08:04 AM

This may be an odd question, but why would you leave water in any engine, the minerals in water attack almost every part of the cooling system. My suggestion (take it for what it's worth) drain the block and rad. go buy 2 gals. of premix antifreeze and pour it in, this would eliminate the potential for freezing and the antifreeze helps stop the errosion effects of water. Joe.....P.S. I've been told by may Rad. manufactures that you should use distilled water in a race motor as all the nasty stuff has been boiled away

jim powers · 02-26-2009, 08:08 AM

i would suspect that you will find damage some where if not in lifter valley then possibly along and above pan rail,i have had it happen years ago and the freeze out plugs never even moved,when storing a engine for the winter mix the antifreeze in motor at operating temp and then drain it out,there is no good reason to leave it in over the winter,i always run a water pump lubricant in radiator to combat rust as i never leave water in block even during the normal race season,always fog motor before storage and back off the rocker arms hope this helps

BIZMANRACING · 02-26-2009, 09:01 AM

in 24 hours i got alot of useful information. some of it makes me sad and has me feeling that i'll be spending another summer making money to replace a motown block and the cost of all the machining. others give me hope that thanks to the plugs the metal never got stressed enough to crack. but, if it did the magic of JB weld could have me racing in a month. question is would it be "wise" to risk the thousands of dollars invested if i physically see "a crack". with a sick mother and father in and out of nursing homes my time is truely not my own.

as for the questions that referrrnace "why would i do that". i have no answer. i could give one only to find myself in the forest gump catagory. life gets in the way of living sometimes and we make wrong, poor or late choices that cost us money, time and unhappyness/stress.

so with that said, i got what i asked for in this forum. maybe i'll know something on sunday then maybe it will not be until next sunday or the one after that. my time is not mine. this is a hobby and is at the mercy of the time i can give it. the good news is that i just love working on cars. sitting behind a desk all day i get real excitied to turn wrenches.

hope the news is good for my concern. thanks

buzzinhalfdozen · 02-26-2009, 09:36 AM

Carlos, didn't mean to sound sarcastic in my post I hope you find no "real" damage. This may be helpful in the future, I made up a check list for my car one for the fall and 1 for the spring time, just list all the things you need to do and check them off as they're done. I know all about getting busy at times, this check sheet saves me from having to remember what I have and haven't done. Good luck Joe

BIZMANRACING · 02-26-2009, 09:47 AM

its ok joe, its just my turn to be a dumb ***. **** happens and its my turn. i just have to deal with it.

i do have a question based on one of the posts. now my freeze plug came from the back. now assuming that when it hit the fan the water in the block was frozen then it would not of leaked out until it was warm enough to melt the ice. if that is so then all the water and antifreeze would come out of that plug hole. my trailer floor is painted and alot of that paint was peeling up thanks to the antifreeze i think. but, if it was cracked then some of the water/antifreeze would drop into the oil pan.

i have 2 plugs on my pan. one up top and the usual one on the bottom. if i open the top one and something comes out (oil) then i'm up **** creek. means product of unwanted form (water) made it into it. god i hope i open it up and its dry. then that leaves the bottom one. i'll just dump it into an open pan and see if the polar water molecules separate from the not polor molecules of the oil.

funny thing is what good is knowing this bull**** about molecules. you gotta laugh, it looks like **** when men cry.

02-25-2009, 03:06 PM	#1
BIZMANRACING Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: east brunswick, new jersey Posts: 62 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Frozen block a little problem happened to me the other day. i went and got my racecar out of storage. it sat all winter in the yard in the trailer. when i opened the door to the trailer under the car was a nice little 1 5/8 freeze plu from my motor. looks like it the one of the 2 in the rear of the block. all freeze plugs have been pushed out "some" only one is all the way out. my question is what are the odds that i did damage to this block? how do i know one way or the other. my intensions are to pull it. then replace all the freeze out plugs with new ones and pressure test the motor in place with a radiator test pump. if it holds 13 lbs i'm figuring i'm good to go. any other inputs. sides i'm a dumb ***. news flash to self. half draining the raditor in the middle of winter filling the remainer with antifreeze and then running the electric water pump dosn't do a good enough job. who knew. signed. screwed before he got started, and never kissed. __________________ S/ST 1739 Carlos Mendes

02-25-2009, 03:41 PM	#3
dak Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: west coast Posts: 26 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Frozen block I did the same thing a couple of years ago. Maybe I go lucky, never had a problem with a crack. What I did have a problem with was I did not change out the frost plugs and lost 2 of them the first time I had the motor up to temp. Replace the frost plugs. Pressure test it, if it holds I think you'd be good. About the draining the rad and adding anti freeze. I rented out my garage to some buddies to store their race cars 1 year and during a real cold snap 1 of the guys showed up just to check the rad/water. He drained the rad, added antifreeze ran the pump to mix it up and the freezing temp of the coolant did not go below freezing... It baffled us for a bit. We fired the car up, got it up to temp and then retested the coolant and then it regestered below zero. I think that the anti freeze and water need heat to mix properly.

02-25-2009, 07:21 PM	#4
R&S Motorsports Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Wind Lake, WI Posts: 54 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Frozen block I did have a engine block that cracked. It didnt crack for the same reason but I also JB welded it and as far as I know the guy I sold the motor to still runs it that way today.

02-25-2009, 07:29 PM	#5
reknapp52 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cascade, CO Posts: 48 Likes: 22 Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Frozen block Have you pulled the oil dipstick and checked it? If it shows about 3 quarts above the full line, you've got cracks inside, probably in the lifter valley area.

02-26-2009, 08:04 AM	#6
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Frozen block This may be an odd question, but why would you leave water in any engine, the minerals in water attack almost every part of the cooling system. My suggestion (take it for what it's worth) drain the block and rad. go buy 2 gals. of premix antifreeze and pour it in, this would eliminate the potential for freezing and the antifreeze helps stop the errosion effects of water. Joe.....P.S. I've been told by may Rad. manufactures that you should use distilled water in a race motor as all the nasty stuff has been boiled away __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

02-26-2009, 08:08 AM	#7
jim powers Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: manville nj Posts: 357 Likes: 192 Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Frozen block i would suspect that you will find damage some where if not in lifter valley then possibly along and above pan rail,i have had it happen years ago and the freeze out plugs never even moved,when storing a engine for the winter mix the antifreeze in motor at operating temp and then drain it out,there is no good reason to leave it in over the winter,i always run a water pump lubricant in radiator to combat rust as i never leave water in block even during the normal race season,always fog motor before storage and back off the rocker arms hope this helps

02-26-2009, 09:01 AM	#8
BIZMANRACING Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: east brunswick, new jersey Posts: 62 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Frozen block in 24 hours i got alot of useful information. some of it makes me sad and has me feeling that i'll be spending another summer making money to replace a motown block and the cost of all the machining. others give me hope that thanks to the plugs the metal never got stressed enough to crack. but, if it did the magic of JB weld could have me racing in a month. question is would it be "wise" to risk the thousands of dollars invested if i physically see "a crack". with a sick mother and father in and out of nursing homes my time is truely not my own. as for the questions that referrrnace "why would i do that". i have no answer. i could give one only to find myself in the forest gump catagory. life gets in the way of living sometimes and we make wrong, poor or late choices that cost us money, time and unhappyness/stress. so with that said, i got what i asked for in this forum. maybe i'll know something on sunday then maybe it will not be until next sunday or the one after that. my time is not mine. this is a hobby and is at the mercy of the time i can give it. the good news is that i just love working on cars. sitting behind a desk all day i get real excitied to turn wrenches. hope the news is good for my concern. thanks __________________ S/ST 1739 Carlos Mendes

02-26-2009, 09:36 AM	#9
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Frozen block Carlos, didn't mean to sound sarcastic in my post I hope you find no "real" damage. This may be helpful in the future, I made up a check list for my car one for the fall and 1 for the spring time, just list all the things you need to do and check them off as they're done. I know all about getting busy at times, this check sheet saves me from having to remember what I have and haven't done. Good luck Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

02-26-2009, 09:47 AM	#10
BIZMANRACING Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: east brunswick, new jersey Posts: 62 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Frozen block its ok joe, its just my turn to be a dumb *. happens and its my turn. i just have to deal with it. i do have a question based on one of the posts. now my freeze plug came from the back. now assuming that when it hit the fan the water in the block was frozen then it would not of leaked out until it was warm enough to melt the ice. if that is so then all the water and antifreeze would come out of that plug hole. my trailer floor is painted and alot of that paint was peeling up thanks to the antifreeze i think. but, if it was cracked then some of the water/antifreeze would drop into the oil pan. i have 2 plugs on my pan. one up top and the usual one on the bottom. if i open the top one and something comes out (oil) then i'm up creek. means product of unwanted form (water) made it into it. god i hope i open it up and its dry. then that leaves the bottom one. i'll just dump it into an open pan and see if the polar water molecules separate from the not polor molecules of the oil. funny thing is what good is knowing this bull about molecules. you gotta laugh, it looks like ** when men cry. __________________ S/ST 1739 Carlos Mendes