Titles and Race Cars

12-01-2009, 04:19 PM

How many of you race car owners have titles for your vehicles? Have you ever encountered any issues because you didn't have one?

Jeff Lee · 12-01-2009, 04:53 PM

Personally I wouldn't buy one without a title or other document recognized as binding.
I once sold a race car rolling chassis. I lived in an apartment and the car was stored on the lot. Even though the buyer paid for it, he didn't pick it up for two weeks. He finally arrived, knocked on my door and said "where's my car"? I assumed it was where I saw it last. Nope...gone. I can tell you I didn't look to good and to make it worse, he was the owner of the local track I raced at (now Speedworld, AZ).
About 3 or 4 years later I was with my fiance and another couple driving around looking at Christmas lights. What do I see this Christmas eve in somebody's drive way? Yep, there it was. I called the owner up at 1:00 in the morning and told him where to find his stolen vehicle.
He arrived the next morning with the Sheriff. Apparently this guy purchased it from the thief under the assumption a title wasn't needed on a race car. Legal owner presented proof of legal ownership and the once rolling chassis with a new tunnel ram 440 was on his trailer. Yep, if your in possession of a stolen vehicle you loose whatever is on it.
It took me nearly 4 years to absolve myself on that and it was a miracle I found it. The only thing better would have been when he showed up at the track. Now that would have been really interesting!

Dave Turner · 12-01-2009, 05:05 PM

Jeff's point is well made. Also provides documentation for proof of origin when crossing an international border....the customs officers are inconsistent in asking for ownerships, but if you have nothing to prove that you were in possession of the vehicle upon entry to your neighbor's country, be prepared to have a prolonged stay with the border folks.

As I see it, it just makes life easier for everyone and helps to expedite a sale.

If a car never leaves your hands and you do not plan to compete in Canada or Mexico.....it probably doesn't matter.

jim powers · 12-01-2009, 06:40 PM

always get a title or a notorized bill of sale,its for your own good!!!!

Travis Miller · 12-01-2009, 06:56 PM

It is not just titles for race cars but titles for any car you buy. If you someday decide to fix up that old car you bought for parts, without the title in some states it can be hard to prove its yours or where it came from. And just because you get the piece of paper called a title, the car is not yours until the title is transferred into your name.

Car story...many years ago I bought a car for parts from a friend. Never got the title because he was a friend and I knew where to find him. Later I decided to fix and license the car. Thats when I found out my friend had committed suicide. His brother was the heir and I almost lost the finished car to the brother because he had possession of the title. Luckily the brother never got to see the finished car and still thought the car was just an old junker but I had to pay him a couple hundred to get the title. Since then, if I buy any car, I get the title and put the car in my name immediately.

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions and advice expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions and advice.)

larry dowty · 12-01-2009, 10:47 PM

terrance in 1970 i had a encounter not with NHRA but with the king co. sheriff department, seems we acquired a 70 camaro with out paying for it and the insurance co. wanted there money, when you are looking at 1 to 3 in the clink you really wish you had a TITLE

12-01-2009, 11:02 PM

So what everyone is saying that every car racing in NHRA has a title? I'm not trying to be a smart @#$ here but if I had the coin to buy say an old Pro Stock car to run in comp it will have a title? I agree, it is nice to have something official no matter if it's a race car, passenger car, or trailer but I don't believe every race vehicle has one.
I do understand no one wants to spend their hard earned money for something that might not be legit that might be more of a hassel than it's worth.

Chris "drooze" Wertman · 12-01-2009, 11:06 PM

The New challeger drag paks dont come with a title....

No vin even....

A copy of the bill of sale from the dealer (a tear carbonless copy) is all you get....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrance Smith

So what everyone is saying that every car racing in NHRA has a title? I'm not trying to be a smart @#$ here but if I had the coin to buy say an old Pro Stock car to run in comp it will have a title? I agree, it is nice to have something official no matter if it's a race car, passenger car, or trailer but I don't believe every race vehicle has one.
I do understand no one wants to spend their hard earned money for something that might not be legit that might be more of a hassel than it's worth.

Jim Wahl · 12-01-2009, 11:21 PM

Terrance, I think it is more uncommon for a Stocker or Super Stocker not to have a title than many here want to admit, however, I would NOT want to buy a car, any car, without a proper title. Florida law states "Any vehicle traveling over Florida roads or highways must have a proper title and proof of insurance". I have only been asked for the proof of title for a race car once in 40 years of traveling over the highways in any state, and it was in Florida. I was told the insurance thing was not a problem since the car didn't actually "drive" on the road. The title was another thing. Most if not all Comp or Pro cars have VIN numbers placed on them by the builder and the buyer gets a "competition automobile bill of sale". These have pretty much been excepted by law enforcement from what I have heard. Back many years ago I drove a race car provided to us by Cadillac and GM. It had no VIN because it was a "pilot vehicle". In other words, officially it basically was a parts car. We had a well documented letter from GM stating the car was given to us for racing purposes only. The letter was very official and had phone numbers and addresses for verification. There are ways to get "junk" titles or "hot rod" titles here in Florida and in Georgia. Worth looking into. All cars really need a title. Jim

Todd Boyer · 12-02-2009, 06:02 AM

I have a friend up here in Canada who frequently races in the US and he got held up at the US side of the border for this issue. He has the title for his car so he was OK. I'm thinking it's a good idea, especially for anyone who crosses the border to race.

12-01-2009, 04:19 PM	#1
Terrance Smith Guest Posts: n/a	Titles and Race Cars How many of you race car owners have titles for your vehicles? Have you ever encountered any issues because you didn't have one?

12-01-2009, 04:53 PM	#2
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Titles and Race Cars Personally I wouldn't buy one without a title or other document recognized as binding. I once sold a race car rolling chassis. I lived in an apartment and the car was stored on the lot. Even though the buyer paid for it, he didn't pick it up for two weeks. He finally arrived, knocked on my door and said "where's my car"? I assumed it was where I saw it last. Nope...gone. I can tell you I didn't look to good and to make it worse, he was the owner of the local track I raced at (now Speedworld, AZ). About 3 or 4 years later I was with my fiance and another couple driving around looking at Christmas lights. What do I see this Christmas eve in somebody's drive way? Yep, there it was. I called the owner up at 1:00 in the morning and told him where to find his stolen vehicle. He arrived the next morning with the Sheriff. Apparently this guy purchased it from the thief under the assumption a title wasn't needed on a race car. Legal owner presented proof of legal ownership and the once rolling chassis with a new tunnel ram 440 was on his trailer. Yep, if your in possession of a stolen vehicle you loose whatever is on it. It took me nearly 4 years to absolve myself on that and it was a miracle I found it. The only thing better would have been when he showed up at the track. Now that would have been really interesting! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

12-01-2009, 05:05 PM	#3
Dave Turner VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Schomberg, ON, Canada Posts: 1,222 Likes: 1,606 Liked 364 Times in 138 Posts	Re: Titles and Race Cars Jeff's point is well made. Also provides documentation for proof of origin when crossing an international border....the customs officers are inconsistent in asking for ownerships, but if you have nothing to prove that you were in possession of the vehicle upon entry to your neighbor's country, be prepared to have a prolonged stay with the border folks. As I see it, it just makes life easier for everyone and helps to expedite a sale. If a car never leaves your hands and you do not plan to compete in Canada or Mexico.....it probably doesn't matter. __________________ Dave Turner SS/GT #1153

12-01-2009, 06:40 PM	#4
jim powers Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: manville nj Posts: 358 Likes: 198 Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Titles and Race Cars always get a title or a notorized bill of sale,its for your own good!!!!

12-01-2009, 06:56 PM	#5
Travis Miller Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 478 Likes: 1 Liked 276 Times in 27 Posts	Re: Titles and Race Cars It is not just titles for race cars but titles for any car you buy. If you someday decide to fix up that old car you bought for parts, without the title in some states it can be hard to prove its yours or where it came from. And just because you get the piece of paper called a title, the car is not yours until the title is transferred into your name. Car story...many years ago I bought a car for parts from a friend. Never got the title because he was a friend and I knew where to find him. Later I decided to fix and license the car. Thats when I found out my friend had committed suicide. His brother was the heir and I almost lost the finished car to the brother because he had possession of the title. Luckily the brother never got to see the finished car and still thought the car was just an old junker but I had to pay him a couple hundred to get the title. Since then, if I buy any car, I get the title and put the car in my name immediately. Travis (Disclaimer: Opinions and advice expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions and advice.)

12-01-2009, 10:47 PM	#6
larry dowty Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: chewelah wa Posts: 283 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Titles and Race Cars terrance in 1970 i had a encounter not with NHRA but with the king co. sheriff department, seems we acquired a 70 camaro with out paying for it and the insurance co. wanted there money, when you are looking at 1 to 3 in the clink you really wish you had a TITLE __________________ larry dowty 6388 SS

12-01-2009, 11:02 PM	#7
Terrance Smith Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Titles and Race Cars So what everyone is saying that every car racing in NHRA has a title? I'm not trying to be a smart @#$ here but if I had the coin to buy say an old Pro Stock car to run in comp it will have a title? I agree, it is nice to have something official no matter if it's a race car, passenger car, or trailer but I don't believe every race vehicle has one. I do understand no one wants to spend their hard earned money for something that might not be legit that might be more of a hassel than it's worth.

12-01-2009, 11:21 PM	#9
Jim Wahl Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 5,843 Likes: 666 Liked 683 Times in 129 Posts	Re: Titles and Race Cars Terrance, I think it is more uncommon for a Stocker or Super Stocker not to have a title than many here want to admit, however, I would NOT want to buy a car, any car, without a proper title. Florida law states "Any vehicle traveling over Florida roads or highways must have a proper title and proof of insurance". I have only been asked for the proof of title for a race car once in 40 years of traveling over the highways in any state, and it was in Florida. I was told the insurance thing was not a problem since the car didn't actually "drive" on the road. The title was another thing. Most if not all Comp or Pro cars have VIN numbers placed on them by the builder and the buyer gets a "competition automobile bill of sale". These have pretty much been excepted by law enforcement from what I have heard. Back many years ago I drove a race car provided to us by Cadillac and GM. It had no VIN because it was a "pilot vehicle". In other words, officially it basically was a parts car. We had a well documented letter from GM stating the car was given to us for racing purposes only. The letter was very official and had phone numbers and addresses for verification. There are ways to get "junk" titles or "hot rod" titles here in Florida and in Georgia. Worth looking into. All cars really need a title. Jim __________________ Jim Wahl....NHRA #2239 S/SS - IHRA # 8 Stock, D2 Stock Champion (forever I guess) 2019 Baby Gators Stock Champion 2009 D2 National Open Stock Champion 1981 D2 West Palm Beach LDRS SS Runner Up Past President, Southern Stock / Super Stock Association.

12-02-2009, 06:02 AM	#10
Todd Boyer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Saint John NB Canada Posts: 560 Likes: 27 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Titles and Race Cars I have a friend up here in Canada who frequently races in the US and he got held up at the US side of the border for this issue. He has the title for his car so he was OK. I'm thinking it's a good idea, especially for anyone who crosses the border to race.