4 Speeds

treessavoy · 06-22-2011, 10:48 PM

There seems to be a friendly dialog between the stick and automatic guys and gals. I have raced both so I'm not leaning either way except I like my push button trans.

Question: Would you guys still race a stick if it had to be the one that the car was originally equiped with ? B&W, mopar, toploader etc.

JimR

Paul Precht · 06-22-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treessavoy

There seems to be a friendly dialog between the stick and automatic guys and gals. I have raced both so I'm not leaning either way except I like my push button trans.

Question: Would you guys still race a stick if it had to be the one that the car was originally equiped with ? B&W, mopar, toploader etc.

JimR

Push Buttons for me too Jim, It's funny after a 3-4 day race I get into my tow vehicle and reach for the push buttons. The thought of having a floor shifter in my Challenger is almost a deal breaker, although I love the car I think floor shifted auto's are a major step back from the push buttons, Paul.

Jeff Lee · 06-22-2011, 11:06 PM

No way! And it's not due to performance, longevity disadvantage (although that would be part of the equation). It's the fact you can no longer go to the wrecking yard on a Saturday afternoon and but a T-10 , A-883 or M-21 for $75-$150 when you break one. And parts aren't cheap or even readily available. Then you have to consider the loss of performance in just the gear set ratios.

Now what would it take to get more racers in S/SS into a 4-speed? Equality in the indexes for one. One of many examples is SS/J & SS/JA where the SS/JA has a .200 advantage on the index over the SS/J car. Go down the list and see the disparity.

The other way to get more stick racers would be to allow magnetic clutch pedal release as offered by Biondo to compete on a level playing field with the t-brake racers with various delay mechanisms internally built in (and adjustable) in Super Stock.

Ed Carpenter · 06-22-2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

No way! And it's not due to performance, longevity disadvantage (although that would be part of the equation). It's the fact you can no longer go to the wrecking yard on a Saturday afternoon and but a T-10 , A-883 or M-21 for $75-$150 when you break one. And parts aren't cheap or even readily available. Then you have to consider the loss of performance in just the gear set ratios.

Now what would it take to get more racers in S/SS into a 4-speed? Equality in the indexes for one. One of many examples is SS/J & SS/JA where the SS/JA has a .200 advantage on the index over the SS/J car. Go down the list and see the disparity.

The other way to get more stick racers would be to allow magnetic clutch pedal release as offered by Biondo to compete on a level playing field with the t-brake racers with various delay mechanisms internally built in (and adjustable) in Super Stock.

Jeff why would you even consider the magnetic deal? Let's just take the driver totally out of the car. Magnetic releases, buttons, air shifters, etc what's left for the driver to do?

Jeff Lee · 06-22-2011, 11:47 PM

Deuces,
Great idea! But only if the auto trans guys had to foot brake it and could have no built in reaction time delay mechanisms.
What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

John Leichtamer Jr · 06-22-2011, 11:55 PM

Jeff

Don't forget the shift aid for the automatic also...

Hammer

Tom keedle · 06-23-2011, 04:35 AM

oh hell, just as well let stock use clutchless transmissions,too

btw, i'll be using a st-10 in the rambler (at least for a while

)

tj310 · 06-23-2011, 09:24 AM

VHT and real slicks killed "stock" 4 speeds...Thanx Trevor

Casey Miles · 06-23-2011, 09:52 AM

I litteraly spit the cluster out of a Muncie (split the case) at West Hampton, the clutches back then were not as forgiving, so something has to give. The clutches were also brutal on rear end gears, they would only last about 30 to 55 runs. I'd say with the newer clutches you could get away with the old trans, but you would lose a ton of performance because of the limited gear ratios available in those units. You would need to carry probably at least 2 spare for any race that you attend though. THE GOOD OL' DAYS!

Casey Miles
248H Stock?

Mike Taylor 3601 · 06-23-2011, 10:30 AM

I'm running Super T-10 in my pure stocker,I've got a soft clutch setup the first time I pulled down and magged gears low had a couple teeth cracked,but low gear was about only gear I had put back when i built trans,so I figured it was fatiuged,put new low gear in pulled it last week probaly had 75 passes on it it had a couple of cracked teeth,it has'nt hurt low on cluster yet though I think it's 9310 and low gear was 8620 and just too hard.
I think stock trans can stand alot more with soft clutches now,but one thing I did'nt think of was how much better the tracks are than they were back when stock trans were ran with aggressive clutches.
I'm going to see if I can find 9310 low gear and see if that will help.
BTW I run T10 because I have to in pure stock not because I want to,when car becomes K/S will have Jerico G Force etc.
Mike Taylor 3601

06-22-2011, 10:48 PM	#1
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	4 Speeds There seems to be a friendly dialog between the stick and automatic guys and gals. I have raced both so I'm not leaning either way except I like my push button trans. Question: Would you guys still race a stick if it had to be the one that the car was originally equiped with ? B&W, mopar, toploader etc. JimR __________________ Jim Rountree

06-22-2011, 11:06 PM	#3
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 4 Speeds No way! And it's not due to performance, longevity disadvantage (although that would be part of the equation). It's the fact you can no longer go to the wrecking yard on a Saturday afternoon and but a T-10 , A-883 or M-21 for $75-$150 when you break one. And parts aren't cheap or even readily available. Then you have to consider the loss of performance in just the gear set ratios. Now what would it take to get more racers in S/SS into a 4-speed? Equality in the indexes for one. One of many examples is SS/J & SS/JA where the SS/JA has a .200 advantage on the index over the SS/J car. Go down the list and see the disparity. The other way to get more stick racers would be to allow magnetic clutch pedal release as offered by Biondo to compete on a level playing field with the t-brake racers with various delay mechanisms internally built in (and adjustable) in Super Stock. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

06-22-2011, 11:47 PM	#5
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 4 Speeds Deuces, Great idea! But only if the auto trans guys had to foot brake it and could have no built in reaction time delay mechanisms. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

06-22-2011, 11:55 PM	#6
John Leichtamer Jr Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orange City Fl Posts: 764 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 4 Speeds Jeff Don't forget the shift aid for the automatic also... Hammer

06-23-2011, 04:35 AM	#7
Tom keedle Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Berthoud, Coloraduh Posts: 695 Likes: 13 Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Re: 4 Speeds oh hell, just as well let stock use clutchless transmissions,too btw, i'll be using a st-10 in the rambler (at least for a while )

06-23-2011, 09:24 AM	#8
tj310 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dresden On. Canada Posts: 460 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 4 Speeds VHT and real slicks killed "stock" 4 speeds...Thanx Trevor

06-23-2011, 09:52 AM	#9
Casey Miles Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 699 Likes: 123 Liked 475 Times in 88 Posts	Re: 4 Speeds I litteraly spit the cluster out of a Muncie (split the case) at West Hampton, the clutches back then were not as forgiving, so something has to give. The clutches were also brutal on rear end gears, they would only last about 30 to 55 runs. I'd say with the newer clutches you could get away with the old trans, but you would lose a ton of performance because of the limited gear ratios available in those units. You would need to carry probably at least 2 spare for any race that you attend though. THE GOOD OL' DAYS! Casey Miles 248H Stock?

06-23-2011, 10:30 AM	#10
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,348 Likes: 296 Liked 248 Times in 87 Posts	Re: 4 Speeds I'm running Super T-10 in my pure stocker,I've got a soft clutch setup the first time I pulled down and magged gears low had a couple teeth cracked,but low gear was about only gear I had put back when i built trans,so I figured it was fatiuged,put new low gear in pulled it last week probaly had 75 passes on it it had a couple of cracked teeth,it has'nt hurt low on cluster yet though I think it's 9310 and low gear was 8620 and just too hard. I think stock trans can stand alot more with soft clutches now,but one thing I did'nt think of was how much better the tracks are than they were back when stock trans were ran with aggressive clutches. I'm going to see if I can find 9310 low gear and see if that will help. BTW I run T10 because I have to in pure stock not because I want to,when car becomes K/S will have Jerico G Force etc. Mike Taylor 3601