Infractions F/Stock Eliminator

Don Davidson · 05-25-2014, 07:31 PM

I take full responsibility for the infractions regarding my car. I am currently working on it in order to bring it into compliance with NHRA Stock Eliminator rules and regulations. I want to clear all this up ASAP so I will be able to race again. Thanks for the support.

Pat Cook · 05-26-2014, 01:34 PM

I know this had been beat to death already,
but I am thinking about spending some money on my car and start racing stock again.

but fining a racer for a minor infraction, like a thousands of cam lift, seems like a bit much. I can see maybe .005 as being pushing it for too much lift, but really. From the outside looking in, it looks like NHRA is trying to generate revenue.......

At the moment, I am thinking I don't want to even renew my membership......

Thanks, Pat Cook

Larry Hill · 05-26-2014, 03:52 PM

We now know how much it cost to walk up the track at Atlanta. How much it cost to complain about the starting line during the Factory Showdown race. In the rule book it list cost of protest and how the moneys are divided. We as racers know how much power a racer will receive if they go -1.20 under the index, a 3.25% increase; -1.30 under is a 4.25% increase; and so on until the last number listed is an 18.25% increase. It would be great if everyone is aware of the cost of an infractions.

Is NHRA looking for income? Some say yes! If NHRA suspends a racer for a year they lose income from that racer for a year. Six nationals and eight divisionals. Those sneaky bean counters are always looking for more beans to count.

Is NHRA looking for racers that stretch the rules?

Is NHRA looking to issue traffic tickets. You know, 10 over, pay a fine OR lose your license for 30 days. 20 over pay a fine OR lose your license for 60 days.

Racers are consumers, and consumers are always looking at value for dollars spent. If the value declines, everyone knows the outcome!

SSDiv6 · 05-26-2014, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

We now know how much it cost to walk up the track at Atlanta. How much it cost to complain about the starting line during the Factory Showdown race. In the rule book it list cost of protest and how the moneys are divided. We as racers know how much power a racer will receive if they go -1.20 under the index, a 3.25% increase; -1.30 under is a 4.25% increase; and so on until the last number listed is an 18.25% increase. It would be great if everyone is aware of the cost of an infractions.

Is NHRA looking for income? Some say yes! If NHRA suspends a racer for a year they lose income from that racer for a year. Six nationals and eight divisionals. Those sneaky bean counters are always looking for more beans to count.

Is NHRA looking for racers that stretch the rules?

Is NHRA looking to issue traffic tickets. You know, 10 over, pay a fine OR lose your license for 30 days. 20 over pay a fine OR lose your license for 60 days.

Racers are consumers, and consumers are always looking at value for dollars spent. If the value declines, everyone knows the outcome!

Great discussion Larry!

I also wonder when a racer appeals an infraction like this type, does NHRA provide the latest calibration results of the equipment used for the inspection?

Ian Hill · 05-27-2014, 10:59 AM

i don't mean to be the bad guy here, but there are tolerances on almost all of the size limits for every engine allowed to run. And many people spend excessive amounts of money to have their engines built to just within those limits. I am by far not a "regular" NHRA/ IHRA racer but my cars are built to the limits. If it says +/- .015" you can bet mine will to .0145" of which ever way benifits horsepower. When my heads are redone and the CC's are recorded at the head shop, i still have my builder check them prior to installation.

When a cam shaft is measured to be too big, it is not only too big over stock, it is too big over the allowable tolerance, if they allow an extra couple of thou over the tolerance, then it it really isnt a tolerance is it?

I feel sorry for anyone that gets caught with out of tolerance parts in car components that we had nothing to do with putting them together, but in the end it was an out of tolerance part; simple. the car owner is doing the right thing - he feels aweful as any of us would, and he is not only striving to make it right he is telling everyone of his plans which is great! But enough of you guys whining about allowable limits over tolerance already please.

Ian

Randall Klein · 05-27-2014, 12:05 PM

I think your missing the point, the "whining" you refer to is mostly about the "out-of-thin-air" $1000 fine for a relatively minor infraction, for which the owner has rightfully acknowledged

There has been some discussion about calibration and temperature, but the main thing is the "new" fine structure

Tony Janes · 05-27-2014, 12:34 PM

"fine structure", probably 500.00 per infraction. Just a guess

Randall Klein · 05-27-2014, 01:36 PM

There 'ya go....just guessing

Casey Miles · 05-27-2014, 02:46 PM

What happened to taking time off for noticeable infractions versus fines? I want NHRA to take cars apart at national events, that's what I pay for with my NHRA membership. Cars also shouldn't get HP unless that vehicle is taken apart to prove that it's within spec., so if you go fast you should be prepared to be taken apart no mater what race you are at.
I don't agree with the fines, they are outrageous. If you had a totally different engine in the car for what it was being claimed, then I could understand maybe some monetary fine, like losing your NHRA membership.
We are sportsman, not professionals, we don't get our income from NHRA. If they are going to fine for infractions, they should do there jobs better and post what the fines are going to be for the infractions.

Casey Miles
248H "F" NHRA Stock

Adger Smith · 05-28-2014, 12:10 AM

I have been a little reserved & not really commented on this fine issue. I was looking at getting ready for a Fall run of several races. As a business guy the last thing I need is to build or race with disregard to the rules. I go the extra mile to keep things by the book. I don't need to be tossed and fined at a race. It just isn't good business for me. If I was fined you can bet your pay check that I'm packing my marbles and going home. It will also be the same if I loose an engine and they try to fine me. I feel keeping the track in good racing condition is just one of the things I pay for when I enter an event. Be it me or someone else that drops oil or anything on the track it is their job to get the track back in shape and I don't think we should pay anything extra for them doing their job.
I guess what gets me most is that this particular fine issue is for very minor problems when NHRA tech is ignoring more very blatant rules violations. I think I'm going to stay out (non member) until these issues are sorted out.
I see no real value in spending my money with them.
I can spend way less money than going racing just flying around with my family in my airplanes. I never thought I would consider dealing with the FAA as easier and less stressful than the NHRA.

05-25-2014, 07:31 PM	#1
Don Davidson Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 4 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Infractions F/Stock Eliminator I take full responsibility for the infractions regarding my car. I am currently working on it in order to bring it into compliance with NHRA Stock Eliminator rules and regulations. I want to clear all this up ASAP so I will be able to race again. Thanks for the support.

05-26-2014, 01:34 PM	#2
Pat Cook Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 175 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Infractions F/Stock Eliminator I know this had been beat to death already, but I am thinking about spending some money on my car and start racing stock again. but fining a racer for a minor infraction, like a thousands of cam lift, seems like a bit much. I can see maybe .005 as being pushing it for too much lift, but really. From the outside looking in, it looks like NHRA is trying to generate revenue....... At the moment, I am thinking I don't want to even renew my membership...... Thanks, Pat Cook __________________ 67 Ford Fairlane F/SA 749

05-26-2014, 03:52 PM	#3
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,640 Likes: 1,939 Liked 10,714 Times in 2,230 Posts	Re: Infractions F/Stock Eliminator We now know how much it cost to walk up the track at Atlanta. How much it cost to complain about the starting line during the Factory Showdown race. In the rule book it list cost of protest and how the moneys are divided. We as racers know how much power a racer will receive if they go -1.20 under the index, a 3.25% increase; -1.30 under is a 4.25% increase; and so on until the last number listed is an 18.25% increase. It would be great if everyone is aware of the cost of an infractions. Is NHRA looking for income? Some say yes! If NHRA suspends a racer for a year they lose income from that racer for a year. Six nationals and eight divisionals. Those sneaky bean counters are always looking for more beans to count. Is NHRA looking for racers that stretch the rules? Is NHRA looking to issue traffic tickets. You know, 10 over, pay a fine OR lose your license for 30 days. 20 over pay a fine OR lose your license for 60 days. Racers are consumers, and consumers are always looking at value for dollars spent. If the value declines, everyone knows the outcome! __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

05-27-2014, 10:59 AM	#5
Ian Hill Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 216 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Infractions F/Stock Eliminator i don't mean to be the bad guy here, but there are tolerances on almost all of the size limits for every engine allowed to run. And many people spend excessive amounts of money to have their engines built to just within those limits. I am by far not a "regular" NHRA/ IHRA racer but my cars are built to the limits. If it says +/- .015" you can bet mine will to .0145" of which ever way benifits horsepower. When my heads are redone and the CC's are recorded at the head shop, i still have my builder check them prior to installation. When a cam shaft is measured to be too big, it is not only too big over stock, it is too big over the allowable tolerance, if they allow an extra couple of thou over the tolerance, then it it really isnt a tolerance is it? I feel sorry for anyone that gets caught with out of tolerance parts in car components that we had nothing to do with putting them together, but in the end it was an out of tolerance part; simple. the car owner is doing the right thing - he feels aweful as any of us would, and he is not only striving to make it right he is telling everyone of his plans which is great! But enough of you guys whining about allowable limits over tolerance already please. Ian __________________ They say money can't buy happiness, it can buy race car parts, and that makes me happy Ian Hill GT/FA 1982 Camaro, F/CM 1968 Camaro

05-27-2014, 12:05 PM	#6
Randall Klein Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 785 Likes: 45 Liked 316 Times in 67 Posts	Re: Infractions F/Stock Eliminator I think your missing the point, the "whining" you refer to is mostly about the "out-of-thin-air" $1000 fine for a relatively minor infraction, for which the owner has rightfully acknowledged There has been some discussion about calibration and temperature, but the main thing is the "new" fine structure

05-27-2014, 12:34 PM	#7
Tony Janes Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Whittier, Ca Posts: 830 Likes: 94 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Infractions F/Stock Eliminator "fine structure", probably 500.00 per infraction. Just a guess __________________ Tony Janes 7941 STK, SS

05-27-2014, 01:36 PM	#8
Randall Klein Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 785 Likes: 45 Liked 316 Times in 67 Posts	Re: Infractions F/Stock Eliminator There 'ya go....just guessing

05-27-2014, 02:46 PM	#9
Casey Miles Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 705 Likes: 128 Liked 502 Times in 91 Posts	Re: Infractions F/Stock Eliminator What happened to taking time off for noticeable infractions versus fines? I want NHRA to take cars apart at national events, that's what I pay for with my NHRA membership. Cars also shouldn't get HP unless that vehicle is taken apart to prove that it's within spec., so if you go fast you should be prepared to be taken apart no mater what race you are at. I don't agree with the fines, they are outrageous. If you had a totally different engine in the car for what it was being claimed, then I could understand maybe some monetary fine, like losing your NHRA membership. We are sportsman, not professionals, we don't get our income from NHRA. If they are going to fine for infractions, they should do there jobs better and post what the fines are going to be for the infractions. Casey Miles 248H "F" NHRA Stock

05-28-2014, 12:10 AM	#10
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Infractions F/Stock Eliminator I have been a little reserved & not really commented on this fine issue. I was looking at getting ready for a Fall run of several races. As a business guy the last thing I need is to build or race with disregard to the rules. I go the extra mile to keep things by the book. I don't need to be tossed and fined at a race. It just isn't good business for me. If I was fined you can bet your pay check that I'm packing my marbles and going home. It will also be the same if I loose an engine and they try to fine me. I feel keeping the track in good racing condition is just one of the things I pay for when I enter an event. Be it me or someone else that drops oil or anything on the track it is their job to get the track back in shape and I don't think we should pay anything extra for them doing their job. I guess what gets me most is that this particular fine issue is for very minor problems when NHRA tech is ignoring more very blatant rules violations. I think I'm going to stay out (non member) until these issues are sorted out. I see no real value in spending my money with them. I can spend way less money than going racing just flying around with my family in my airplanes. I never thought I would consider dealing with the FAA as easier and less stressful than the NHRA. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)