Just a thought.....?

Greg Reimer 7376 · 06-26-2014, 02:46 PM

Often pondered on this forum is concern over the indecisiveness we seem to be headed in as a nation.Often lamented on, by myself and others, is the outsourcing of goods and services to outside interests. I recently told my story about a jack and a winch for my trailer.My Suburban, which apparently sat for quite a bit before I got it,needed a brake job. The fluid looked pretty bad, so I bought a new master cylinder at Napa, (no rebuilt crap),bench bled it and installed it, only to have very poor brake performance. I bled and rebled, and had a stuck rear wheel cylinder and some really ugly fluid come out. I went back to Napa, bought two new rear wheel cylinders and a rear brake hose. When I got this stuff home, then got it out to install it, it was all made in China. Napa? I thought it was an all-American holdout. Guess again!! Often times at work, we go through lots of electrical parts,relays,solenoids,the like, and always specify OEM whenever possible. Seems like Delco switches, parts like this, etc. all are made in places like Singapore, China,Mexico, et all. Quality is down on this stuff as well. Then I had a thought. GM is in deep doo-doo over ignition switch failures on millions of cars. Now, we know that GM doesn't make that many of its parts, most stuff is supplied by vendors licensed by GM,so they could have been made anywhere. What is the chance that all these ignition switches and other electrical parts were outsourced from who knows where, and the vile stench of bad goods overtook the sweet aroma of a low price? Sounds like a practice that came around and bit them good,doesn't it?

GTX JOHN · 06-26-2014, 03:32 PM

Well said Greg!

Ed Wright · 06-26-2014, 03:37 PM

Greg, I have bought from NAPA for years. That is very disappointing to hear.

About GM using vendors for their parts: Ford & Chrysler does too. The manufacturers pretty much just design & assemble their cars. An engineer for GM told me there are parts on all three brands actually made by the same vendors. I didn't ask him which parts. This was probably fifteen years ago. At least they were probably made in the U.S. then. GM's Declo points, condensers, etc , used to say "Made in Mexico" on the boxes, back when they still used points & condensers.
They all use outside vendors.

Greg Reimer 7376 · 06-26-2014, 04:22 PM

This is true. Around 1980 or so, I worked on a 76 Chrysler Cordoba, 318 engine, made a weird noise around the lower front of the engine. Air pump for the smog system noisy. I removed the pump and the bypass valve, that was the culprit. Turning it over, it had GM cast into it. Chrysler was buying smog pump hardware from GM. Makes sense. Why does each manufacturer have to reinvent the same wheel every time? At least those parts then were made in America!

Jeff Niceswanger · 06-26-2014, 07:08 PM

If anybody remembers the Ford and Mercury Taurus/Sable line that was burning down peoples houses as they sit unattended in their garages...Maybe it was the LTD....Anyways,....I worked in the plant that made them.1973-1981 // Essex Wire ( United Technologies) . Zanesville Ohio...They moved the plant, to Mexico many years ago. There were 2 plants in town, one made wiring harnesses, the other electro-mechanical switches. Headlight, dimmer, ignition etc...about 3000 employees in all.
It was an Ignition switch problem also. Ford was trying to duplicate the small "Arc" that the Jap Cars had in their switches. You had to really bend your wrist around to go through the entire swing of our switch (to get it started)....Instead of coming up with a new switch, they just used smaller spacing between the contacts in the switch. But,,,it put the hot and the ground too close together, and as the switch wore, and flaking and soot got between them,a short would occur, and some resulted in fires......

We made the national news also, but back then it was at 6:30 at night, as 24 hour news had not been invented yet.....

John Kissel · 06-26-2014, 11:16 PM

My memory might be wrong, but I thought certain things had to be made in America by law like hydraulic brake parts. I changed wheel cylinders in my early FireBird and bought all Wagner stuff, and the cheyneeze didn't copy the right front properly as they left out the machined flat surface to locate it in the backing plate. I called Wagner and the rep. looked up the blue prints and said "oops we will fix that".. John Kissel

Dan Bennett · 06-27-2014, 03:22 PM

A few years back I was reading an industrial trade maqazine and noticed an ad from an offshore supplier. They touted their "one stop" capabilities in that all the manufacturer had to do was provide them with the specs for the part or assembly. They would then engineer it and produce it.

This ad showed a complete headlight capsule. According to the text, the manufacturer would do anything electrical. Ever since I read that, I've looked at replacement parts in a different light. Even though it may have been produced on a US assembly line, the engineering was done by a company I'd never heard of.

This just added to the unease I got a few years earlier when a Goodyear engineer told me that no tire company designed their own tread configurations - there were outside "styling" companies who would sell the designs to the tire manufacturers. The selection evidently hinged on what they felt they could promote the best.

06-26-2014, 02:46 PM	#1
Greg Reimer 7376 VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendora,Calif. Posts: 1,135 Likes: 172 Liked 704 Times in 218 Posts	Just a thought.....? Often pondered on this forum is concern over the indecisiveness we seem to be headed in as a nation.Often lamented on, by myself and others, is the outsourcing of goods and services to outside interests. I recently told my story about a jack and a winch for my trailer.My Suburban, which apparently sat for quite a bit before I got it,needed a brake job. The fluid looked pretty bad, so I bought a new master cylinder at Napa, (no rebuilt crap),bench bled it and installed it, only to have very poor brake performance. I bled and rebled, and had a stuck rear wheel cylinder and some really ugly fluid come out. I went back to Napa, bought two new rear wheel cylinders and a rear brake hose. When I got this stuff home, then got it out to install it, it was all made in China. Napa? I thought it was an all-American holdout. Guess again!! Often times at work, we go through lots of electrical parts,relays,solenoids,the like, and always specify OEM whenever possible. Seems like Delco switches, parts like this, etc. all are made in places like Singapore, China,Mexico, et all. Quality is down on this stuff as well. Then I had a thought. GM is in deep doo-doo over ignition switch failures on millions of cars. Now, we know that GM doesn't make that many of its parts, most stuff is supplied by vendors licensed by GM,so they could have been made anywhere. What is the chance that all these ignition switches and other electrical parts were outsourced from who knows where, and the vile stench of bad goods overtook the sweet aroma of a low price? Sounds like a practice that came around and bit them good,doesn't it?

06-26-2014, 03:32 PM	#2
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,732 Likes: 2,797 Liked 2,476 Times in 697 Posts	Re: Just a thought.....? Well said Greg! __________________ John Irving 741 Stock 741 Super Stock

06-26-2014, 03:37 PM	#3
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Just a thought.....? Greg, I have bought from NAPA for years. That is very disappointing to hear. About GM using vendors for their parts: Ford & Chrysler does too. The manufacturers pretty much just design & assemble their cars. An engineer for GM told me there are parts on all three brands actually made by the same vendors. I didn't ask him which parts. This was probably fifteen years ago. At least they were probably made in the U.S. then. GM's Declo points, condensers, etc , used to say "Made in Mexico" on the boxes, back when they still used points & condensers. They all use outside vendors. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

06-26-2014, 04:22 PM	#4
Greg Reimer 7376 VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendora,Calif. Posts: 1,135 Likes: 172 Liked 704 Times in 218 Posts	Re: Just a thought.....? This is true. Around 1980 or so, I worked on a 76 Chrysler Cordoba, 318 engine, made a weird noise around the lower front of the engine. Air pump for the smog system noisy. I removed the pump and the bypass valve, that was the culprit. Turning it over, it had GM cast into it. Chrysler was buying smog pump hardware from GM. Makes sense. Why does each manufacturer have to reinvent the same wheel every time? At least those parts then were made in America!

06-26-2014, 07:08 PM	#5
Jeff Niceswanger Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 893 Likes: 679 Liked 1,023 Times in 368 Posts	Re: Just a thought.....? If anybody remembers the Ford and Mercury Taurus/Sable line that was burning down peoples houses as they sit unattended in their garages...Maybe it was the LTD....Anyways,....I worked in the plant that made them.1973-1981 // Essex Wire ( United Technologies) . Zanesville Ohio...They moved the plant, to Mexico many years ago. There were 2 plants in town, one made wiring harnesses, the other electro-mechanical switches. Headlight, dimmer, ignition etc...about 3000 employees in all. It was an Ignition switch problem also. Ford was trying to duplicate the small "Arc" that the Jap Cars had in their switches. You had to really bend your wrist around to go through the entire swing of our switch (to get it started)....Instead of coming up with a new switch, they just used smaller spacing between the contacts in the switch. But,,,it put the hot and the ground too close together, and as the switch wore, and flaking and soot got between them,a short would occur, and some resulted in fires...... We made the national news also, but back then it was at 6:30 at night, as 24 hour news had not been invented yet..... __________________ Jeff Niceswanger 3740 SS Last edited by Jeff Niceswanger; 06-26-2014 at 07:41 PM.

06-26-2014, 11:16 PM	#6
John Kissel Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Colt's Neck, n.j. Posts: 349 Likes: 766 Liked 230 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Just a thought.....? My memory might be wrong, but I thought certain things had to be made in America by law like hydraulic brake parts. I changed wheel cylinders in my early FireBird and bought all Wagner stuff, and the cheyneeze didn't copy the right front properly as they left out the machined flat surface to locate it in the backing plate. I called Wagner and the rep. looked up the blue prints and said "oops we will fix that".. John Kissel

06-27-2014, 03:22 PM	#7
Dan Bennett Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 437 Likes: 840 Liked 591 Times in 134 Posts	Re: Just a thought.....? A few years back I was reading an industrial trade maqazine and noticed an ad from an offshore supplier. They touted their "one stop" capabilities in that all the manufacturer had to do was provide them with the specs for the part or assembly. They would then engineer it and produce it. This ad showed a complete headlight capsule. According to the text, the manufacturer would do anything electrical. Ever since I read that, I've looked at replacement parts in a different light. Even though it may have been produced on a US assembly line, the engineering was done by a company I'd never heard of. This just added to the unease I got a few years earlier when a Goodyear engineer told me that no tire company designed their own tread configurations - there were outside "styling" companies who would sell the designs to the tire manufacturers. The selection evidently hinged on what they felt they could promote the best.