Double Bye Runs

asmyth1783 · 07-21-2014, 10:46 AM

For the sake of curiosity

: How does everyone feel about double bye runs?

Double bye runs are becoming more and more common due to lower turnouts. I've been in a situation where I received two bye runs, and while it is always nice to go to the next round

... I'm not sure I agree with it. Ladders can definitely be setup to ensure that no racer has more than one bye run. I'm just curious to see how others feel about this.

Bob Don · 07-21-2014, 11:32 AM

Allison - Take what you can get and don't look back!

Lyn Smith · 07-21-2014, 11:35 AM

If you feel bad about getting a second bye run just turn it down.Im sure there will be someone else who would gladly take it.LOL

Mike Carr · 07-21-2014, 11:41 AM

The way the ladder is set (in a 'normal' race) the #1 qualifier can get two bye runs, when there is a certain number of cars (33, 65 for example). They can get the first or second round bye and the quarter or semifinal bye. Not counting any cars that break during eliminations. That would just be luck of the draw.

In a rainout situation, it can get more bizarre. 2002, the Dutch Classic rained out after round 1. We went back several weeks later. There were a lot of bye runs, and even some double bye runs (two drivers scheduled to race in round 2, neither showed, giving someone a bye in round 3). I think several drivers had back to back bye runs.

And yes, I will never turn a bye run down. I have had several in my bracket racing career for the best RT the previous round, and two 'broke' byes in Stock. I never complained.

asmyth1783 · 07-21-2014, 01:03 PM

Hahaha I will never turn down a second bye either! I was mostly thinking about the byes set in the ladder (not byes from another car breaking). I have looked at the ladders quite a bit, and it is possible to set them up so that no racer is eligible for 2 bye runs. I was thinking it might cut down on the ladder games if 2 bye runs are not available.

Mike Schwartz · 07-21-2014, 01:59 PM

Do all bye runs in the first round if there is a odd/short field. From that point on, you should actually have to win races to advance. I hate seeing someone who qualified 56th earning a bye directly from a quarterfinal win straight through to the finals just because they inherited a quicker driver's scheduled bye.

Also, since NHRA is now eliminating through the quarterfinals on Saturday at some events, there can be as few as 2 meaningful races on Sunday in a class with a semifinal bye.

Mickey Whaley · 07-21-2014, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmyth1783

For the sake of curiosity

: How does everyone feel about double bye runs?

Double bye runs are becoming more and more common due to lower turnouts. I've been in a situation where I received two bye runs, and while it is always nice to go to the next round

... I'm not sure I agree with it. Ladders can definitely be setup to ensure that no racer has more than one bye run. I'm just curious to see how others feel about this.

you can actually get 3 bye runs in a race

BobOrme · 07-22-2014, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmyth1783

Hahaha I will never turn down a second bye either! I was mostly thinking about the byes set in the ladder (not byes from another car breaking). I have looked at the ladders quite a bit, and it is possible to set them up so that no racer is eligible for 2 bye runs. I was thinking it might cut down on the ladder games if 2 bye runs are not available.

Hi Allison,

Single elimination ladder structure has to be based on a 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, or 256 ladder. The only way you won't have byes is if the number of contestants is exactly the same as the first round ladder number. I'm very curious to see how it is possible to set up a ladder where no racer is ever eligible for 2 bye runs.

Jim Whitehead · 07-23-2014, 08:35 AM

A competition single and a Bye are two different things. What Alison is saying is that you can change some of the ladders to eliminate the multiple or three byes for a single person at one race.

asmyth1783 · 07-23-2014, 02:17 PM

A good example is the NHRA 33-car ladder. In this ladder, the #1 qualifier will get a bye in the first round. If the #1 qualifier is still in, he/she will also be eligible for a bye run in the fifth round.

The attachment "NHRALadder_33Car_alt" shows the 33-car ladder currently being used at NHRA events. The attachment "AltLadder_33car_alt" shows how the 33-car ladder could be setup to prevent this from occurring.

07-21-2014, 11:32 AM	#2
Bob Don VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Greater Boston Posts: 1,491 Likes: 1,080 Liked 882 Times in 188 Posts	Re: Double Bye Runs Allison - Take what you can get and don't look back! __________________ Bob Don 128 SS

07-21-2014, 11:35 AM	#3
Lyn Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pontiac,il. Posts: 1,183 Likes: 267 Liked 935 Times in 185 Posts	Re: Double Bye Runs If you feel bad about getting a second bye run just turn it down.Im sure there will be someone else who would gladly take it.LOL

07-21-2014, 11:41 AM	#4
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: Double Bye Runs The way the ladder is set (in a 'normal' race) the #1 qualifier can get two bye runs, when there is a certain number of cars (33, 65 for example). They can get the first or second round bye and the quarter or semifinal bye. Not counting any cars that break during eliminations. That would just be luck of the draw. In a rainout situation, it can get more bizarre. 2002, the Dutch Classic rained out after round 1. We went back several weeks later. There were a lot of bye runs, and even some double bye runs (two drivers scheduled to race in round 2, neither showed, giving someone a bye in round 3). I think several drivers had back to back bye runs. And yes, I will never turn a bye run down. I have had several in my bracket racing career for the best RT the previous round, and two 'broke' byes in Stock. I never complained. __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

07-21-2014, 01:03 PM	#5
asmyth1783 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 43 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Double Bye Runs Hahaha I will never turn down a second bye either! I was mostly thinking about the byes set in the ladder (not byes from another car breaking). I have looked at the ladders quite a bit, and it is possible to set them up so that no racer is eligible for 2 bye runs. I was thinking it might cut down on the ladder games if 2 bye runs are not available.

07-21-2014, 01:59 PM	#6
Mike Schwartz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Maryland USA Posts: 526 Likes: 123 Liked 238 Times in 82 Posts	Re: Double Bye Runs Do all bye runs in the first round if there is a odd/short field. From that point on, you should actually have to win races to advance. I hate seeing someone who qualified 56th earning a bye directly from a quarterfinal win straight through to the finals just because they inherited a quicker driver's scheduled bye. Also, since NHRA is now eliminating through the quarterfinals on Saturday at some events, there can be as few as 2 meaningful races on Sunday in a class with a semifinal bye.

07-21-2014, 10:46 AM	#1
asmyth1783 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 43 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Double Bye Runs For the sake of curiosity : How does everyone feel about double bye runs? Double bye runs are becoming more and more common due to lower turnouts. I've been in a situation where I received two bye runs, and while it is always nice to go to the next round ... I'm not sure I agree with it. Ladders can definitely be setup to ensure that no racer has more than one bye run. I'm just curious to see how others feel about this.

07-23-2014, 08:35 AM	#9
Jim Whitehead Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MA. Posts: 283 Likes: 148 Liked 147 Times in 39 Posts	Re: Double Bye Runs A competition single and a Bye are two different things. What Alison is saying is that you can change some of the ladders to eliminate the multiple or three byes for a single person at one race.

07-23-2014, 02:17 PM	#10
asmyth1783 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 43 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Double Bye Runs A good example is the NHRA 33-car ladder. In this ladder, the #1 qualifier will get a bye in the first round. If the #1 qualifier is still in, he/she will also be eligible for a bye run in the fifth round. The attachment "NHRALadder_33Car_alt" shows the 33-car ladder currently being used at NHRA events. The attachment "AltLadder_33car_alt" shows how the 33-car ladder could be setup to prevent this from occurring. Attached Thumbnails