4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question

Todd Gross · 06-05-2017, 10:30 PM

I am in the process of ordering a manual transmission for my FS/D-E Challenger.
By rule, I can run a 4 or 5 speed as the OEM 6 speed has two OD gears.
Talking to the Transmission companies, I hear claims that the 5 speed is worth a tenth over the four. I'm not sure I buy into that.
As an engine builder I am constantly hearing parts vendors from oil pumps to piston rings to valve train, all promising their product is worth 12 to 15 HP or better. Although they all are gain, if all the 15HP claims came to fruition, I may be closer to fielding a Top Sportsman car than a Stocker.
I also have to factor in that the extra gear change may make consistency 1 gear more difficult, not to mention the added rotating mass will have some parasitic loss.

Whats can the the stick shift community tell me?

Thanks*

Don Anderson · 06-05-2017, 11:26 PM

5-Speed is the way to go with your combo.
It has been proven many times that a 5-speed seems to make the engine perform better in closer power band.

Don Anderson
M/S #5891

Glenn Briglio · 06-06-2017, 12:21 PM

Just wondering................anyone try a 6 speed?

Dave Casey · 06-06-2017, 12:37 PM

If I had all 4 speed stuff already, I would put it in. The 5 speed will be faster, but I doubt it is worth a tenth, especially in a big motor fast car. When Kevin Helms ran a stick in his Dragpac it was a 5 speed, I questioned him on it and he said he was sure it was faster. Why don't you talk to Kev. I have run both in my g/s camaro and, but the 5 speed was a nash and not as good a piece as the jericho. ran about the same.

Glenn, I don't know if there is a 6 speed that is approved, or a stock one that would stand up to what we do.

Sean Marconette · 06-06-2017, 01:54 PM

No way it's worth a tenth in performance, that's a sales pitch. Your able to tighten up the rpm drop between gears. Depending on the vendor you have more choices on gearing too.

Give G-Force and Liberty a call.

Sean

Glenn Briglio · 06-06-2017, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Casey

If I had all 4 speed stuff already, I would put it in. The 5 speed will be faster, but I doubt it is worth a tenth, especially in a big motor fast car. When Kevin Helms ran a stick in his Dragpac it was a 5 speed, I questioned him on it and he said he was sure it was faster. Why don't you talk to Kev. I have run both in my g/s camaro and, but the 5 speed was a nash and not as good a piece as the jericho. ran about the same.

Glenn, I don't know if there is a 6 speed that is approved, or a stock one that would stand up to what we do.

Thanks Dave. Didn't know if the tremec could withstand the abuse or if it's legal.

weedburner · 06-06-2017, 04:50 PM

If it's a Tremec 5spd, you would likely only be using 4 gears anyway. Remove overdrive gears if you can, it's that much less you have to spin up.

Todd Gross · 06-06-2017, 05:22 PM

[QUOTE=Dave Casey;536565]If I had all 4 speed stuff already, I would put it in. The 5 speed will be faster, but I doubt it is worth a tenth, especially in a big motor fast car. When Kevin Helms ran a stick in his Dragpac it was a 5 speed, I questioned him on it and he said he was sure it was faster. Why don't you talk to Kev. I have run both in my g/s camaro and, but the 5 speed was a nash and not as good a piece as the jericho. ran about the same.

I am on the fence as to use a Liberty or a G-Force. I'm sure the 5 speed would be faster and probably more fun. But if it's just a small increment faster and a bit more inconsistent to nail dial in, it may not be worth the plus side. That's what I'm looking at.

Good Idea about talking to Kevin! I will try to PM him

james schaechter · 06-06-2017, 08:51 PM

I would go five speed. You can get a better spread on gear ratios and it would just be more fun! There is no issue of consistency being different between four or five speeds. The five speed is heavier bring a friend when you need to put it in! LOL

dmir55 · 06-07-2017, 10:30 AM

I think G-FORCE makes a 6 speed based on the Doug Nash Tranny. A friend on mine has one in his 59 Vette. This is a street trans, but I think they said they could build a race version. Six speeds in our car, you would be busy.

06-05-2017, 10:30 PM	#1
Todd Gross Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Crete, IL Posts: 167 Likes: 260 Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts	4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question I am in the process of ordering a manual transmission for my FS/D-E Challenger. By rule, I can run a 4 or 5 speed as the OEM 6 speed has two OD gears. Talking to the Transmission companies, I hear claims that the 5 speed is worth a tenth over the four. I'm not sure I buy into that. As an engine builder I am constantly hearing parts vendors from oil pumps to piston rings to valve train, all promising their product is worth 12 to 15 HP or better. Although they all are gain, if all the 15HP claims came to fruition, I may be closer to fielding a Top Sportsman car than a Stocker. I also have to factor in that the extra gear change may make consistency 1 gear more difficult, not to mention the added rotating mass will have some parasitic loss. Whats can the the stick shift community tell me? Thanks* __________________ Todd Gross 3323 FS/E,F

06-05-2017, 11:26 PM	#2
Don Anderson Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Duluth, Mn. Posts: 155 Likes: 2,789 Liked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question 5-Speed is the way to go with your combo. It has been proven many times that a 5-speed seems to make the engine perform better in closer power band. Don Anderson M/S #5891

06-06-2017, 12:21 PM	#3
Glenn Briglio VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Massapequa Park,NY Posts: 1,281 Likes: 1,890 Liked 969 Times in 307 Posts	Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question Just wondering................anyone try a 6 speed?

06-06-2017, 12:37 PM	#4
Dave Casey VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hampden, MA Posts: 1,201 Likes: 233 Liked 774 Times in 164 Posts	Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question If I had all 4 speed stuff already, I would put it in. The 5 speed will be faster, but I doubt it is worth a tenth, especially in a big motor fast car. When Kevin Helms ran a stick in his Dragpac it was a 5 speed, I questioned him on it and he said he was sure it was faster. Why don't you talk to Kev. I have run both in my g/s camaro and, but the 5 speed was a nash and not as good a piece as the jericho. ran about the same. Glenn, I don't know if there is a 6 speed that is approved, or a stock one that would stand up to what we do. __________________ Dave Casey 1330 STK

06-06-2017, 04:50 PM	#7
weedburner Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 55 Likes: 1 Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts	Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question If it's a Tremec 5spd, you would likely only be using 4 gears anyway. Remove overdrive gears if you can, it's that much less you have to spin up.

06-06-2017, 01:54 PM	#5
Sean Marconette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 977 Likes: 792 Liked 275 Times in 76 Posts	Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question No way it's worth a tenth in performance, that's a sales pitch. Your able to tighten up the rpm drop between gears. Depending on the vendor you have more choices on gearing too. Give G-Force and Liberty a call. Sean __________________ Sean Marconette 84 Mustang 5060 SS/N

06-06-2017, 05:22 PM	#8
Todd Gross Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Crete, IL Posts: 167 Likes: 260 Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts	Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question [QUOTE=Dave Casey;536565]If I had all 4 speed stuff already, I would put it in. The 5 speed will be faster, but I doubt it is worth a tenth, especially in a big motor fast car. When Kevin Helms ran a stick in his Dragpac it was a 5 speed, I questioned him on it and he said he was sure it was faster. Why don't you talk to Kev. I have run both in my g/s camaro and, but the 5 speed was a nash and not as good a piece as the jericho. ran about the same. I am on the fence as to use a Liberty or a G-Force. I'm sure the 5 speed would be faster and probably more fun. But if it's just a small increment faster and a bit more inconsistent to nail dial in, it may not be worth the plus side. That's what I'm looking at. Good Idea about talking to Kevin! I will try to PM him __________________ Todd Gross 3323 FS/E,F

06-06-2017, 08:51 PM	#9
james schaechter VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 1,988 Likes: 1,281 Liked 1,428 Times in 296 Posts	Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question I would go five speed. You can get a better spread on gear ratios and it would just be more fun! There is no issue of consistency being different between four or five speeds. The five speed is heavier bring a friend when you need to put it in! LOL __________________ James Schaechter 3163 STK Last edited by james schaechter; 06-06-2017 at 08:53 PM.

06-07-2017, 10:30 AM	#10
dmir55 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: northern Minnesota Posts: 64 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question I think G-FORCE makes a 6 speed based on the Doug Nash Tranny. A friend on mine has one in his 59 Vette. This is a street trans, but I think they said they could build a race version. Six speeds in our car, you would be busy.