HP added but car not built/run?

[goinbroke2]

I've noticed some combo's that have had hp added but have no date saying when they were changed and why.
So, why is a (for example) 79 mustang 200 six cyl which is rated at 85hp from the factory have 140hp as factored by NHRA??
This is another, "85hp? I'll try that" or "140hp? For a one barrel inline six? Nope, pass"...and it doesn't get built.

Who is raising the hp on untested combo's and why?


(Big thanks to Dwight Southerland for the guide program!)

[Paul Wong]

When cars were pit in the books from the “net” HP beginnings they for the most part all had penalties assigned to them by NHRA tech. If everyone wanted to make the whole 302 mess fair, they should go take all the “Assigned” HP of every car that got it assigned from new and never run.

The problem with the 302 deal is there was a protocol to get HP reduced at the time and they did a mass reduction on every combination. There were a good handful being competitively run and were index killers overnight.

As fun as that would be, that will never happen.

[Mark Yacavone]

Yep..The net rating were, at best , a guessing game. That's about the time we went to lower compression in Detroit.
Crazy thing is, Gary Summers set the Q/Stock record in the 12's, right before the mass reduction of the 302s. So, the combo was a record holder, when the rest got reduced.

[Tom P]

A 200 six at 140 hp is crazy, they never made close to that in gross power ratings in 1970-71. There are no bogus big cam ones or ones that came with 800cfm carbs. Best version would probably be in an 81 Mustang or Fairmont. Better cast-in intake than the 60's-70's ones.

[Billy Nees]

Ya know, "long ago in a galaxy far,far away" my DD at the time "explained" to me just how this net-to-gross HP factoring thing was done. ;-)

At the time, I was running my old, faithful green Nova with a 230 I-6 rated at 140 HP with a 1 bbl carb and a "siamese-port" head. It's a good combo but not great. I had to race in V/SA against good, old friends of mine one who was running a Chevy 229 V-6 rated (at the time) 140 HP (net 115) and the other running a Buick 231 V-6 rated 130 (net 105). Both combos had (relatively) big 2 bbl carbs and real cylinder heads and intake manifolds compared to my stuff.
So, one day I asked my DD how NHRA came up with these arbitrary factors for these combos and was told (this is an exact quote) " 230 Chevy and 229 Chevy are the same thing and everybody knows that Buicks make less horsepower than Chevys".
Ya can't make this stuff up!

And now I'll fast-forward to the 21ST Century where the Tech Dept. (hi Pat! remember me?) sees no problem with putting a Chevy 262 V6 with fuel injection and a roller cam in the guide at an at the time 140 HP (net 140) and they can't see a problem with this.

I've been asked why I don't bring my green Nova out-to-play anymore by a few Racers. Doug Hoven brought out my blue Nova with the 230 in it last year and figured out quickly that it was no-longer competitive and put a 350 in it.
I've been asked why I don't request a HP reduction (Doug did) but the way the system is set up, I would be lucky to get a 2-3 HP reduction per year IF I play the "game" right which would mean running a non-competitive combo for 4-5 years to (maybe) be competitive again.

Maybe I'll just stick to "playing" with my junk. I don't have to (or am I expected to) take it seriously.

[Adger Smith]

That 200 "6" has about the worst induction of any engine I know of..
I don't know which is worse, It or the integral intake Chevy "6" head.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

That 200 "6" has about the worst induction of any engine I know of..
I don't know which is worse, It or the integral intake Chevy "6" head.

Harry Dolittle had a good running one! It might have had one of those "dove" heads on it though.

[Larry Hill]

It does take a while to get enough power off to make a combination competitive. It wasn’t too bad when the reviews were two times a year.

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

It does take a while to get enough power off to make a combination competitive. It wasn’t too bad when the reviews were two times a year.

I seem to recall the 302 Fords were hardly the only combo to get a big HP reduction all at once. How about the 1970 LT1 Camaro, from 360 down to 325? The last Nitro Joe book I have is the 2019 end of year edition, and not only was that combo the fastest in E/SA, by quite a bit, it was also faster than every D/SA car, other than Jason Lines Buick.. What about the 1970 Barracuda/Challenger 440, down to 332 from 375HP? 64 Dodge 426 Street Wedge, down from 365HP, to 291? Or is it only the oddball Ford combos that are villified? Does anybody remember when Glen Tinsley brought out his new SS/GT Mustang years ago, with a low compression 460 smogger engine, factory rated at 198HP, at the Winternationals, I believe. IN TECH, somebody at NHRA added over 100 HP to the combination , which to that point, had never been run in Super Stock. Yet when the new late 80s LT1s with EFI came out, those cars were allowed to run in G & H Stock, only after many years, were they moved up to A & B . Lots of cases of some combinations being shown "special treatment", while others may get 2 or 3 HP off at a time. If at all.

[Larry Hill]

I can speak with confidence on the 70 E body one year only option 440/375. All the power removed was within the framework of the reduction part of the
AHFS. It takes a few years because of the 1.25% or the 2.25% reduction limit done yearly, and all the rules have to satisfied.