SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie)

HawkBrosMav · 04-21-2009, 08:15 PM

I'll start off by saying that me and my bro have never run stock or SS before so this maybe seem like a basic question to some.

we are looking to run an EFI 302 from like an 87 mustang rated at 215. as far as tuning the computer (ie. a chip) what are the limitations on that? obviously if we change injectors and cam all the fuel curve stuff will be way off. we planned on just finding a donor fox mustang and stealing the factory computer and harness but then we would be forced to use a programable chip as it is a ford and you dont just reprogram them like the GMs.

We have all the capabilities of doing this as my dad is a dealer for a few different companies that we can get a custom tune for it, but i wasn't sure if there were secific companies we were allowed to used or if we had to go with a complete system like FAST or something of than nature.

thanks for the input guys.

Brad &Matt Hawk

Mark Yacavone · 04-21-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkBrosMav

I'll start off by saying that me and my bro have never run stock or SS before so this maybe seem like a basic question to some.

we are looking to run an EFI 302 from like an 87 mustang rated at 215. as far as tuning the computer (ie. a chip) what are the limitations on that? obviously if we change injectors and cam all the fuel curve stuff will be way off. we planned on just finding a donor fox mustang and stealing the factory computer and harness but then we would be forced to use a programable chip as it is a ford and you dont just reprogram them like the GMs.

We have all the capabilities of doing this as my dad is a dealer for a few different companies that we can get a custom tune for it, but i wasn't sure if there were secific companies we were allowed to used or if we had to go with a complete system like FAST or something of than nature.

thanks for the input guys.

Brad &Matt Hawk

Don't tell them anything! Trust me. You don't want these guys running Stock or Super Stock
(LOL)

Fred Popov · 04-22-2009, 07:11 AM

I think what Mark was trying to say is that it takes a whole lot more than just reprogrammed chips and a cam to make a stocker and even more so a super stocker. You will need engine blueprinting and extensive dyno tuning to run a few tenths under the index. Get a rule book and read sections about Stock and SS several times. FAST is allowed and so are several others that are listed on the NHRA website.

Mark Yacavone · 04-22-2009, 03:33 PM

No, that's not what I was saying, Vodka Man.

These guys are really good bracket racers. Just what you need to be in S/SS.

Now, how about helping them out ? The Holley Commander 950 comes to mind.

art leong · 04-22-2009, 03:43 PM

The ViPec System comes with a datalogger and has all the bells and whistles. Very easy to adapt to your sensors. And is fairly reasonable under $2000 complete.

Fred Popov · 04-22-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

No, that's not what I was saying, Vodka Man.

These guys are really good bracket racers. Just what you need to be in S/SS.

Now, how about helping them out . The Holley Commander 950 comes to mind.

Sounded like you were making fun of them for asking the question....if they have to ask they are obviously new to stock class racing.

partsbob67 · 04-22-2009, 06:49 PM

i run the holley 950 system in stock. l/sa 92 mustang. pretty easy to use. c-4 and some gears, a little suspension work and you'll be ready to go racing. mark's right, these guys are good bracket racers.

HawkBrosMav · 04-22-2009, 09:16 PM

Vodka man,

I love the fact the you feel the need to try and make the new guy feel like this is impossible. Me and my brother have been racing for around 10 years we aren't new to the sport. What we are new to are the Stock and Super Stock style racing. Mark's comments were completely in jest. He was being sarcastic about not telling us anything. If you don't have anything good to say or at least an opinion about the subject then please stay out of the thread. Everyone had to start somewhere and asking questions is the only way to learn.

thanks to everyone else for at least throwing some ideas out for us to think about. we appreciate it.

If we don't go with a complete stand alone system what other choices do we have for adjust ability? I don't see Diablo on the EFI list but technically it's not a fuel injection system, its only the way we would be modifying the fuel and timing curves. has nobody heard of anyone doing this?

Brad

partsbob67 · 04-22-2009, 10:10 PM

a post on one of the mustang racing associations might get you some help or info. not real sure what those guys run for systems, but they sure go fast. wonder how far a mass air flow system would adjust?

tgriffith · 04-23-2009, 03:38 PM

Im rather sure that the SDS systems is allowed .....Ive ran both the fast and the SDS (simple digital systems)-----the fast is a very good system but will set you back plenty of $$$,,,,it will cook for you if you want.......the SDS system is also very good....I like it better...it has a hand held programmer,,,and was VERY easy to install,,,,the ony draw back from the one i had was;;;;;;it did what you told it,,,SO,,if you didnt know anything,,,neither did it

the fast system used O2 sensors to tune and it had an idiot mode,,,you but a basic start point in and toold it to get you 13:1 fuel and thats what it did

I do understand that SDS now offers that option but to be honest with you,,,,,If I were to buy one tomorrow,,,it would be the plain SDS unit and an EGT gauge to tune by

on your question of the stock computer???? in stock you might get away with it,,,,you have real issues with a speed density system on idle and possibly a bigger one with mass air,,,,,,If I understand it correctly,,,a large duration camshaft will play hell with a speed density system ,,,,,,,,,if you just wanted to run the index,,you could do it without popping 1k or so in a computer,,,,,,no need to get a chip,,,,,first thing is to unplugg the distrib from the computer,,,leave the module out so that the computer does not control the timing,,,,if your wanting the tming to move around, do it yourself with a msd unit,,,,use an adjustable fuel regulator and an EGT guage to do your tuning,,,,,,the only issue with doing this is you cant get the best of both worlds with the fuel curve,,,,,believe it or not,,,your car will use less fuel at higher RPM,,,,so either you starve it thru the mid range to have it tuned inupper RPM OR you run it rich on top end to give it the fuel it needs thru the mid range

on my little mustang,,,the SDS was worth about .30 VS the stock computer,,,,,dont know about SDS vs fast,,,they were on 2 different cars

here is the WEB site for SDS----they sell a harnas that directly wires into the mustangs existing harness by just unplugging the computer and run a couple of wires

http://sdsefi.com/

here is the company I bought mine from....no issues

http://www.wmsracing.com/

good luck

04-21-2009, 08:15 PM	#1
HawkBrosMav Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 362 Likes: 6 Liked 302 Times in 73 Posts	SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie) I'll start off by saying that me and my bro have never run stock or SS before so this maybe seem like a basic question to some. we are looking to run an EFI 302 from like an 87 mustang rated at 215. as far as tuning the computer (ie. a chip) what are the limitations on that? obviously if we change injectors and cam all the fuel curve stuff will be way off. we planned on just finding a donor fox mustang and stealing the factory computer and harness but then we would be forced to use a programable chip as it is a ford and you dont just reprogram them like the GMs. We have all the capabilities of doing this as my dad is a dealer for a few different companies that we can get a custom tune for it, but i wasn't sure if there were secific companies we were allowed to used or if we had to go with a complete system like FAST or something of than nature. thanks for the input guys. Brad &Matt Hawk

04-22-2009, 07:11 AM	#3
Fred Popov Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 64 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie) I think what Mark was trying to say is that it takes a whole lot more than just reprogrammed chips and a cam to make a stocker and even more so a super stocker. You will need engine blueprinting and extensive dyno tuning to run a few tenths under the index. Get a rule book and read sections about Stock and SS several times. FAST is allowed and so are several others that are listed on the NHRA website.

04-22-2009, 03:33 PM	#4
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,742 Likes: 2,847 Liked 5,003 Times in 1,903 Posts	Re: SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie) No, that's not what I was saying, Vodka Man. These guys are really good bracket racers. Just what you need to be in S/SS. Now, how about helping them out ? The Holley Commander 950 comes to mind. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers Last edited by Mark Yacavone; 04-22-2009 at 03:42 PM.

04-22-2009, 03:43 PM	#5
art leong VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Richmond Hill, Georgia Posts: 2,003 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie) The ViPec System comes with a datalogger and has all the bells and whistles. Very easy to adapt to your sensors. And is fairly reasonable under $2000 complete. __________________ Art Leong 2095 SS

04-22-2009, 06:49 PM	#7
partsbob67 Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: rohnert park,ca Posts: 414 Likes: 11 Liked 78 Times in 11 Posts	Re: SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie) i run the holley 950 system in stock. l/sa 92 mustang. pretty easy to use. c-4 and some gears, a little suspension work and you'll be ready to go racing. mark's right, these guys are good bracket racers. __________________ bob beals 7244

04-22-2009, 09:16 PM	#8
HawkBrosMav Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 362 Likes: 6 Liked 302 Times in 73 Posts	Re: SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie) Vodka man, I love the fact the you feel the need to try and make the new guy feel like this is impossible. Me and my brother have been racing for around 10 years we aren't new to the sport. What we are new to are the Stock and Super Stock style racing. Mark's comments were completely in jest. He was being sarcastic about not telling us anything. If you don't have anything good to say or at least an opinion about the subject then please stay out of the thread. Everyone had to start somewhere and asking questions is the only way to learn. thanks to everyone else for at least throwing some ideas out for us to think about. we appreciate it. If we don't go with a complete stand alone system what other choices do we have for adjust ability? I don't see Diablo on the EFI list but technically it's not a fuel injection system, its only the way we would be modifying the fuel and timing curves. has nobody heard of anyone doing this? Brad

04-22-2009, 10:10 PM	#9
partsbob67 Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: rohnert park,ca Posts: 414 Likes: 11 Liked 78 Times in 11 Posts	Re: SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie) a post on one of the mustang racing associations might get you some help or info. not real sure what those guys run for systems, but they sure go fast. wonder how far a mass air flow system would adjust? __________________ bob beals 7244

04-23-2009, 03:38 PM	#10
tgriffith Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 187 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: SS/GT with EFI Ford (newbie) Im rather sure that the SDS systems is allowed .....Ive ran both the fast and the SDS (simple digital systems)-----the fast is a very good system but will set you back plenty of $$$,,,,it will cook for you if you want.......the SDS system is also very good....I like it better...it has a hand held programmer,,,and was VERY easy to install,,,,the ony draw back from the one i had was;;;;;;it did what you told it,,,SO,,if you didnt know anything,,,neither did it the fast system used O2 sensors to tune and it had an idiot mode,,,you but a basic start point in and toold it to get you 13:1 fuel and thats what it did I do understand that SDS now offers that option but to be honest with you,,,,,If I were to buy one tomorrow,,,it would be the plain SDS unit and an EGT gauge to tune by on your question of the stock computer???? in stock you might get away with it,,,,you have real issues with a speed density system on idle and possibly a bigger one with mass air,,,,,,If I understand it correctly,,,a large duration camshaft will play hell with a speed density system ,,,,,,,,,if you just wanted to run the index,,you could do it without popping 1k or so in a computer,,,,,,no need to get a chip,,,,,first thing is to unplugg the distrib from the computer,,,leave the module out so that the computer does not control the timing,,,,if your wanting the tming to move around, do it yourself with a msd unit,,,,use an adjustable fuel regulator and an EGT guage to do your tuning,,,,,,the only issue with doing this is you cant get the best of both worlds with the fuel curve,,,,,believe it or not,,,your car will use less fuel at higher RPM,,,,so either you starve it thru the mid range to have it tuned inupper RPM OR you run it rich on top end to give it the fuel it needs thru the mid range on my little mustang,,,the SDS was worth about .30 VS the stock computer,,,,,dont know about SDS vs fast,,,they were on 2 different cars here is the WEB site for SDS----they sell a harnas that directly wires into the mustangs existing harness by just unplugging the computer and run a couple of wires http://sdsefi.com/ here is the company I bought mine from....no issues http://www.wmsracing.com/ good luck