Stock Suggestion # 1

[Jeff Teuton]

I propose this on the thought of speeding up the old cars, not slowing down the new cars. I would take 10% HP off all combos and keep the shipping weights where they are. Cars 2007 and older. It appears the LS1 needs something less than 10%. Indexes stay the same. The assumption is AHFS in it's present form or similar is here to stay. I can't download the Class Guides (new computer and over my grade level) or I would post some examples. Maybe some of you could do that for your combo or one you are familiar. How about the 396 cars. There are a bunch of them. A 3400 lb shipping weight car currently @ 400 hp is a B/S car @ 8.5. The same car @ 360 which is less the 10% would have a factor of 9.44 or C/S almost D/S. Somewhere around 2 classes. Just a thought, but I have been proposing this for a few years. Who knows, might find an ear out there.

[james schaechter]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

I propose this on the thought of speeding up the old cars, not slowing down the new cars. I would take 10% HP off all combos and keep the shipping weights where they are. Cars 2007 and older. It appears the LS1 needs something less than 10%. Indexes stay the same. The assumption is AHFS in it's present form or similar is here to stay. I can't download the Class Guides (new computer and over my grade level) or I would post some examples. Maybe some of you could do that for your combo or one you are familiar. How about the 396 cars. There are a bunch of them. A 3400 lb shipping weight car currently @ 400 hp is a B/S car @ 8.5. The same car @ 360 which is less the 10% would have a factor of 9.44 or C/S almost D/S. Somewhere around 2 classes. Just a thought, but I have been proposing this for a few years. Who knows, might find an ear out there.

There you go Jeff ! Thoughtful and positive ideas! And I don't get choked either! Lol! Now of only the decision makers can have an open discussion......

[Chuck Rayburn]

Jeff,
You know, what we have here is a "give and take" situation. I have an old dinosaur CC/SA hemi. Therefore, I will "take" your very generous offer of a 10% hp reduction. Now "give" me something in return. I propose a somewhat simpler solution and it will only cost you 2008 and newer cars 20 or so dollars for new vinyl lettering.
You guys can't run heads up with us any longer...you're 4 tenths and 10 mph faster, on the average over the last few years.
What do you think about FX/A for cars in guide at 5.5 to 6.0 with an index of 9.7sec., FX/B for 6.01 to 6.5 index at 9.9, FX/C for 6.51 to 7.0 index at 10.1, FX/D for 7.01 to 7.5 index at 10.3...so on down to FX/G or so?
In other words...don't go away mad from the "old" dinosaur classes...just go away, please

Chuck

[FireSale]

Originally Posted by Chuck Rayburn

Jeff,
You know, what we have here is a "give and take" situation. I have an old dinosaur CC/SA hemi. Therefore, I will "take" your very generous offer of a 10% hp reduction. Now "give" me something in return. I propose a somewhat simpler solution and it will only cost you 2008 and newer cars 20 or so dollars for new vinyl lettering.
You guys can't run heads up with us any longer...you're 4 tenths and 10 mph faster, on the average over the last few years.
What do you think about FX/A for cars in guide at 5.5 to 6.0 with an index of 9.7sec., FX/B for 6.01 to 6.5 index at 9.9, FX/C for 6.51 to 7.0 index at 10.1, FX/D for 7.01 to 7.5 index at 10.3...so on down to FX/G or so?
In other words...don't go away mad from the "old" dinosaur classes...just go away, please

Chuck

If I understand Jeff's math right, you wouldn't be running heads up with cars that you can't compete with anymore. His adjustment in factoring would class you down and you would run heads up against newer cars that you can match up with.

Dale

[Pedigo Perf]

Where is the 800 foot mark? That is the new finish line under this scenario. Old cars can't change their tail lights and get a new combo with a fresh factor.

Safe to say a 396/400 Camaro makes north of 600 HP with a Wikle or Tilburg engine and that is about 1.5 Horsepower per cube. This is with a dual plane intake, Holley 780 Vac secondary carb, solid lifter .520 lift cam and heavy internal organs. This combo is factored at roughly 1 HP per cube.

Now advance forward to 2014 and look at the engine design! 2.0 HP per cube easily attainable with this design so how do you justify starting a 396 COPO out at 390 HP when it runs past 800 HP easily?

I think starting out these highly tuned race engine stockers at about 1.25 HP per cubic inch would be a pretty fair place to start.

[ALMACK]

I like the 10% hp reduction idea.

[Jim Bailey]

Hey Chuck, additionally, to level the playing field, I'd like CNC ported heads, roller cam, an Alum. block, 9 inch ford rear end, any brand automotive Transmission, AND I'll except the factory HP rating of 425hp. - JB-

[Jim Bailey]

Seriously Jeff, we've had this conversation before, your idea is pretty damn good ! -JB-

[Ed Wright]

How about just giving the new cars the 50 to 75 (a few engines even more) hp they need to level the playing field? I know what some of the best SS 360" Drag Paks and GM LT1s make from the same engine builder, same dyno. Close to 100 hp difference. Just this past week the 360" got bumped up so the LT1 (which isn't at all over rated) doesn't also have to carry more weight in the same class. Last week I would have to be 40 lbs heavier in SS/JA.

I love Jeff (NOT in THAT way) but he wants everybody else to be shuffled around so the few problem cars don't have to do anything different, or (horrors!) slow down. They are the ones wrong, not everybody else. As long as Ford, MOPAR & GM sponsors races, I would not hold my breath until NHRA made it right.

[Michael Beard]

Instead of reducing HP on over a thousand old cars, why wouldn't you increase HP on the much smaller number of factory cars, which need a HP increase in the first place? They've already appended numerous class weight breaks above A/SA. As you point out, it's not about "slowing them down", but rather classifying them properly.

Dodge blew the roof off the automotive industry by proclaiming the Hellcat made 707HP. It wouldn't have been very marketable to say "This supercharged 6.2L makes 426HP!" If anything, you'd figure they'd want to redo the weight break/classification structure so that ALL cars, both old and new had HP factors that made some semblance of sense to people in the outside world. Do you want to advertise to the public that your factory race car makes 500HP, or 900HP?

As usual, full disclosure: I run a DragPak combo. I think the new cars are great, and are impressive race cars. I simply feel that NHRA could've included them in a way that was realistic and fair, while actually improving their marketing position.

$.02,