National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.

bill dedman · 02-21-2012, 02:22 PM

As Jeff Colvert pointed out at the end of his post RE: the national records he has set, the A.H.F.S is a big deterrent to setting new records because of the possibility of running afoulf of that system, if you run really quick.

How are people supposed to set new national records with such a self-defeating system?

Wouldn't it make more sense to disable the A.H.F.S. just during record runs?

I remember when being a national record holder was a really BIG DEAL, and was even worth some advertising dollars; cars had it emblazioned on the top... proudly!

I'd like to see it mean something that significant, again.

Has anybody ever approached NHRA about this?

Makes all kinds of sense, to me...

Ed Wright · 02-21-2012, 02:29 PM

Bill, NHRA stopped awarding points for records, so my guess is they would just as soon not screw with tear downs. The bracket race contingent just bad mouths you for having ego issues if your that fast with a legit car anyway.

Rich Biebel · 02-21-2012, 02:30 PM

National Record Holders got free entry at my local track in the '60s.

Other than that it was just something to shoot for and be proud of.
Getting paper T's and Q's was right up there with setting records.....You have to be old to know what they were....LOL

My race partner and I tried very hard to set a record and did. We also did get a T from Indy....and left it on the car untill the weather faded it out...

We also were very close to setting the record with out first car a '57 sedan delivery once.

Was not an easy task for two young guys with mostly just a desire to do it...

Alan Roehrich · 02-21-2012, 03:12 PM

The solution is to make records pay. Currently, setting a record really only pays the engine builder, since you get no points and no money. The engine builder looks good, and may get some new business, but the racer, unless he is also the engine builder, only gets the extra work and expense of a teardown, and his name in the Dragster for a while.

Records should pay points, and maybe at least $200 or so. You should not, however, get points and money for resetting your own record. It would help the AHFS work better. Just like paying points and money for class and qualifying.

Tom Meyer · 02-21-2012, 03:16 PM

Right now with the index is three tenths lower, and the auto hit is 1.20 under in all that is 1.50 under the old index. Now if you drove smart not hitting the 1.00 under to have it looked at and save it for say a shot at the record one time late in the year you would not get your combo hit. Even at .999 under would be almost1.30 under the old indexs.
Tom

my69396 · 02-21-2012, 03:59 PM

The biggest problem with the A.H.F.S. is that it is to easy to get around. If you drive smart and don't care about things like records you can run a bogus car and be fast and never have to prove that the combo is legal. It is getting where NHRA doesn't even have the slips at National events. So unless you want to do something dumb like set the record and have NHRA look at all your stuff you can run almost anything bogus you want to. What would make A.H.F.S. work would be to have a tear down, pass, and be sealed with a date, If you take it apart after it is sealed it has to be checked again .Also if the you go fast enough to get the the combo horsepower it needs to be torn down and certified legal before they add horsepower. Do it at the division races of a random number of cars whether they were fast or not and you would have been torn down before you can run National events. And do it on the day before the race. Seems like a good idea to me.

Tom Moock · 02-21-2012, 05:15 PM

Bill, You can set the record at opens and not hit the trigger unless you go 1.20 under, and you can set record`s at points meet and not hit the trigger, only your fastest run in qualifying counts one time on hitting the trigger, you can run two times under 1 second and it only counts as one hit on the trigger. you need to hit trigger twice before you get looked at, unless you go 1.20 under. Tom

bill dedman · 02-21-2012, 07:11 PM

Tom,

Thanks for that explanation.

It's... complicated.

Sounds liike you need to have access to a Philadelphia lawyer to ensure that you're not going to "trigger" something you really don't want to happen.

To GREATLY simplify, I think NHRA just needs to disable the monitoring of national record runs (ONLY,) as regards the A.H.F.S.

What could be easier?

The status of record holders is in need of an overhaul. Stock and Super Stock are performance-based classes and holding a national record in any of their classes should be elevated to a status commensurate with the accomplishment.

It's not, as things stand. I think the A.H.F.S. situation may be part of the reason.

Jack McCarthy · 02-22-2012, 12:50 AM

i might have tried to set the u/sa record at indy open but ive only got a .02 window before auto trigger and shazaam im a t/sa car forever...too much risk for all that REWARD !

captain jack

Ron Ortiz · 02-22-2012, 02:09 AM

Jack, wasn't that Kingswood a T/SA when Quinn had it, set the record with it I believe. That is its natural class is it not.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA weighted subject

02-21-2012, 02:22 PM	#1
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. As Jeff Colvert pointed out at the end of his post RE: the national records he has set, the A.H.F.S is a big deterrent to setting new records because of the possibility of running afoulf of that system, if you run really quick. How are people supposed to set new national records with such a self-defeating system? Wouldn't it make more sense to disable the A.H.F.S. just during record runs? I remember when being a national record holder was a really BIG DEAL, and was even worth some advertising dollars; cars had it emblazioned on the top... proudly! I'd like to see it mean something that significant, again. Has anybody ever approached NHRA about this? Makes all kinds of sense, to me... __________________ Bill

02-21-2012, 02:29 PM	#2
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. Bill, NHRA stopped awarding points for records, so my guess is they would just as soon not screw with tear downs. The bracket race contingent just bad mouths you for having ego issues if your that fast with a legit car anyway. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

02-21-2012, 02:30 PM	#3
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,314 Likes: 25 Liked 544 Times in 213 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. National Record Holders got free entry at my local track in the '60s. Other than that it was just something to shoot for and be proud of. Getting paper T's and Q's was right up there with setting records.....You have to be old to know what they were....LOL My race partner and I tried very hard to set a record and did. We also did get a T from Indy....and left it on the car untill the weather faded it out... We also were very close to setting the record with out first car a '57 sedan delivery once. Was not an easy task for two young guys with mostly just a desire to do it... __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R

02-21-2012, 03:12 PM	#4
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,098 Likes: 1,550 Liked 1,778 Times in 404 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. The solution is to make records pay. Currently, setting a record really only pays the engine builder, since you get no points and no money. The engine builder looks good, and may get some new business, but the racer, unless he is also the engine builder, only gets the extra work and expense of a teardown, and his name in the Dragster for a while. Records should pay points, and maybe at least $200 or so. You should not, however, get points and money for resetting your own record. It would help the AHFS work better. Just like paying points and money for class and qualifying. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

02-21-2012, 03:16 PM	#5
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 934 Likes: 75 Liked 351 Times in 120 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. Right now with the index is three tenths lower, and the auto hit is 1.20 under in all that is 1.50 under the old index. Now if you drove smart not hitting the 1.00 under to have it looked at and save it for say a shot at the record one time late in the year you would not get your combo hit. Even at .999 under would be almost1.30 under the old indexs. Tom __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ???

02-21-2012, 03:59 PM	#6
my69396 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 285 Likes: 0 Liked 43 Times in 19 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. The biggest problem with the A.H.F.S. is that it is to easy to get around. If you drive smart and don't care about things like records you can run a bogus car and be fast and never have to prove that the combo is legal. It is getting where NHRA doesn't even have the slips at National events. So unless you want to do something dumb like set the record and have NHRA look at all your stuff you can run almost anything bogus you want to. What would make A.H.F.S. work would be to have a tear down, pass, and be sealed with a date, If you take it apart after it is sealed it has to be checked again .Also if the you go fast enough to get the the combo horsepower it needs to be torn down and certified legal before they add horsepower. Do it at the division races of a random number of cars whether they were fast or not and you would have been torn down before you can run National events. And do it on the day before the race. Seems like a good idea to me. Last edited by my69396; 02-21-2012 at 04:20 PM. Reason: added text

02-21-2012, 05:15 PM	#7
Tom Moock Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 801 Likes: 1 Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. Bill, You can set the record at opens and not hit the trigger unless you go 1.20 under, and you can set record`s at points meet and not hit the trigger, only your fastest run in qualifying counts one time on hitting the trigger, you can run two times under 1 second and it only counts as one hit on the trigger. you need to hit trigger twice before you get looked at, unless you go 1.20 under. Tom __________________ Tom Moock 5704 STK

02-21-2012, 07:11 PM	#8
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. Tom, Thanks for that explanation. It's... complicated. Sounds liike you need to have access to a Philadelphia lawyer to ensure that you're not going to "trigger" something you really don't want to happen. To GREATLY simplify, I think NHRA just needs to disable the monitoring of national record runs (ONLY,) as regards the A.H.F.S. What could be easier? The status of record holders is in need of an overhaul. Stock and Super Stock are performance-based classes and holding a national record in any of their classes should be elevated to a status commensurate with the accomplishment. It's not, as things stand. I think the A.H.F.S. situation may be part of the reason. __________________ Bill

02-22-2012, 12:50 AM	#9
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,316 Likes: 27 Liked 442 Times in 112 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. i might have tried to set the u/sa record at indy open but ive only got a .02 window before auto trigger and shazaam im a t/sa car forever...too much risk for all that REWARD ! captain jack __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

02-22-2012, 02:09 AM	#10
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 988 Likes: 33 Liked 315 Times in 102 Posts	Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S. Jack, wasn't that Kingswood a T/SA when Quinn had it, set the record with it I believe. That is its natural class is it not. Ron Ortiz U/SA weighted subject __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK