Iron Dukes??

Bench Racer · 04-25-2012, 08:07 PM

What ever happened to the Pontiac iron duke engines? They seemed to be the "ticket" for a 4 banger in comp back in the day. I used to enjoy watching a Pontiac T1000 with a iron duke and a glide get some wickes spots in IHRA superstock a decade and a half ago, anyone know where it went. Is anyone still racing one? Was the little Pontiac "out scienced" by the more modern 4 cylinder engines or were there issues with dependability or parts? Any responses are appreciated. Don Jackson

jerry witzel · 04-25-2012, 08:47 PM

Larry Nelson still has his T1000 but i don't think he's had it out for awhile.

bob3240 · 04-25-2012, 08:55 PM

I built one back when they first came out, They had a special block and forged 3.25 crank and the one I had had the S.D. cast iron head. Later on guys in comp adapted the splayed valve Chev head to the S.D. block. I know some poeple are using a Gaerte block in comp now. Bob Michael.

goinbroke2 · 04-26-2012, 06:17 AM

Alyn Armstrong's opel GT was (is?) powered by an iron duke with a billet head he made.
Leave the line at 10,000 and shift at 10,500! (unless that was his extremely dry humor, never can tell)

Hemi Moose · 04-27-2012, 01:15 PM

I remember seeing one on a stand at a local speed shop and wondered why someone would build such a radical 4 banger...curious how many versions of the 'Iron Duke' there were, and which production cars they came in.

bill dedman · 04-27-2012, 02:27 PM

I am no expert (far from it!) but, I think that was the 4-cylinder engine that G.M. used for the first FWD X-cars, (Nova/Omaga/Ventura/Apollo) that were introduced in the early '80s.

It had the same bore-center spacing (4.4-inches) that the chevy small block (and, 4-and-6-cylinder Chevy II) engines had, so they probably used some of the same tooling to build it.

The upside was that Chevy V8 heads used the same bore-center spacing and I'd imagine, could be adapted, by moving the head bolts around...

But, Pontiac (remember THEM?) had a hi-po program for this little engine, and came up with a head that bolted on (aluminum) that was claimed to flow better than the Chevy stuff at the time.

For a pushrod 4-cylinder, this thing was about as good as it gets, IMHO...

CFMCNC · 04-27-2012, 07:33 PM

The Iron Duke resurfaced as the Kansas Perf block ,still in use in Comp. Elim.with various cylinder heads on top,several pass through our shop.Bill C.

Nitro Joe Jackson · 04-27-2012, 11:34 PM

the late Bob Wollett ran iron dukes in both the old Kathy's Clown Firebird he got from Stover and his new olds he raced before retiring. I know his son Jason has everything still. I have not talked to him since Bob passed away to see what he is going to do with everything.

jerry witzel · 04-28-2012, 01:48 PM

Jason still has the cars and wants to race them someday. He has NO plans on selling them.http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...scan0001-2.jpg

BlueOval Ralph · 04-28-2012, 02:14 PM

GM went down this road several times a hair brain scheme to replace the Small Block Cheby with a 4 and V6 cylinders to be the engine of the future!

Pontiac = Iron Duke
Oldsmobile the Quad 4 (one year thier whole SEMA Show Display was based on this engine and they spent in excess $ 7 million on the Aero Tech)
Buick V6 (They spent close to a $100 million over 10 years
Cheby and the Tony Stewart Midget Engine a couple of years ago know just a boat anchor
Cheby and the Eco Tech 4 cylinder in Sport Compacts series at about $3.5 million for over 3 years

It sure has worked hasen't it?

04-25-2012, 08:07 PM	#1
Bench Racer Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Green Creek (Tryon) North Carolina Posts: 331 Likes: 69 Liked 99 Times in 21 Posts	Iron Dukes?? What ever happened to the Pontiac iron duke engines? They seemed to be the "ticket" for a 4 banger in comp back in the day. I used to enjoy watching a Pontiac T1000 with a iron duke and a glide get some wickes spots in IHRA superstock a decade and a half ago, anyone know where it went. Is anyone still racing one? Was the little Pontiac "out scienced" by the more modern 4 cylinder engines or were there issues with dependability or parts? Any responses are appreciated. Don Jackson

04-25-2012, 08:47 PM	#2
jerry witzel Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Marion, Ohio Posts: 185 Likes: 3 Liked 44 Times in 15 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? Larry Nelson still has his T1000 but i don't think he's had it out for awhile.

04-25-2012, 08:55 PM	#3
bob3240 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: lebanon ohio Posts: 251 Likes: 3 Liked 16 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? I built one back when they first came out, They had a special block and forged 3.25 crank and the one I had had the S.D. cast iron head. Later on guys in comp adapted the splayed valve Chev head to the S.D. block. I know some poeple are using a Gaerte block in comp now. Bob Michael.

04-26-2012, 06:17 AM	#4
goinbroke2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NS CANADA Posts: 888 Likes: 1,600 Liked 387 Times in 151 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? Alyn Armstrong's opel GT was (is?) powered by an iron duke with a billet head he made. Leave the line at 10,000 and shift at 10,500! (unless that was his extremely dry humor, never can tell)

04-27-2012, 01:15 PM	#5
Hemi Moose VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,824 Likes: 0 Liked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? I remember seeing one on a stand at a local speed shop and wondered why someone would build such a radical 4 banger...curious how many versions of the 'Iron Duke' there were, and which production cars they came in. Last edited by Hemi Moose; 05-01-2012 at 11:00 PM.

04-27-2012, 02:27 PM	#6
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? I am no expert (far from it!) but, I think that was the 4-cylinder engine that G.M. used for the first FWD X-cars, (Nova/Omaga/Ventura/Apollo) that were introduced in the early '80s. It had the same bore-center spacing (4.4-inches) that the chevy small block (and, 4-and-6-cylinder Chevy II) engines had, so they probably used some of the same tooling to build it. The upside was that Chevy V8 heads used the same bore-center spacing and I'd imagine, could be adapted, by moving the head bolts around... But, Pontiac (remember THEM?) had a hi-po program for this little engine, and came up with a head that bolted on (aluminum) that was claimed to flow better than the Chevy stuff at the time. For a pushrod 4-cylinder, this thing was about as good as it gets, IMHO... __________________ Bill

04-27-2012, 07:33 PM	#7
CFMCNC Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Somwhere in NJ Posts: 72 Likes: 4 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? The Iron Duke resurfaced as the Kansas Perf block ,still in use in Comp. Elim.with various cylinder heads on top,several pass through our shop.Bill C.

04-27-2012, 11:34 PM	#8
Nitro Joe Jackson VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Loudonville, Ohio or where ever the Nitro Lounge is parked Posts: 2,293 Likes: 58 Liked 67 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? the late Bob Wollett ran iron dukes in both the old Kathy's Clown Firebird he got from Stover and his new olds he raced before retiring. I know his son Jason has everything still. I have not talked to him since Bob passed away to see what he is going to do with everything. __________________ Nitro Joe Jackson STK 3431 nitrojoe@neo.rr.com

04-28-2012, 01:48 PM	#9
jerry witzel Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Marion, Ohio Posts: 185 Likes: 3 Liked 44 Times in 15 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? Jason still has the cars and wants to race them someday. He has NO plans on selling them.http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...scan0001-2.jpg

04-28-2012, 02:14 PM	#10
BlueOval Ralph Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 852 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Iron Dukes?? GM went down this road several times a hair brain scheme to replace the Small Block Cheby with a 4 and V6 cylinders to be the engine of the future! Pontiac = Iron Duke Oldsmobile the Quad 4 (one year thier whole SEMA Show Display was based on this engine and they spent in excess $ 7 million on the Aero Tech) Buick V6 (They spent close to a $100 million over 10 years Cheby and the Tony Stewart Midget Engine a couple of years ago know just a boat anchor Cheby and the Eco Tech 4 cylinder in Sport Compacts series at about $3.5 million for over 3 years It sure has worked hasen't it?