Tire Kickers

11-09-2007, 02:59 PM

I have been wanting to get a pulse of what others think of this subject, people who want you to give them something for nothing. I have an add in the classified section and on Racing Junk. I have a received a couple calls with varying questions; does it have a title, is it street legal, is it a rust bucket, can you send pics etc. One of the things I don't understand is what is the deal with titles and race cars? The last time I checked MPR, Qauy, F.J. Smith, Bickel, and Haas etc. didn't give out titles, if they do someone please enlighten me. When I bought my car I got a bill of sale, I didn't intend on driving it on the street and if I did I could use that bill of sale to get a title. Street legal; how many real race car buyers are looking in the classifieds of pages like Racing Junk, ND, DR, or here on Class Racer for a street car? not many that I have seen. I don't know many cars that have 5.67 gears and 14x32 slicks that are street legal but there could be. One gentlemen called and asked a bunch of questions, asked me to complare my car to Joe's and I wouldn't do it. I don't know Joe, I only know my car. Then last but not least car value; I don't own an MPR, PMR, Quay, F.J. Smith, or Wisecarver built car but it is a well built peice and I think I have it priced right for what it is. It amazes me how people want you to give you stuff away; I don't know where you can find a car that is NHRA certifed and is almost ready to run with minor changes for the price I have my vehicle listed at. Yet I have had people tell me it's more work they they want to do, if adding carpet and a seat to vehicle to make it legal to race is too much work I don't know what to tell a person.
I'm going to get off my soap box, I am sure no one cares but I needed to vent so I figured I let it out here. I am sure some folks have been through the same stuff.

Smitty

Chuck Garey · 11-09-2007, 03:24 PM

Smitty,
I cannot speak for every one here but in most cases the title is peace of mind. Having the title in your hands assures the buyer of a couple things, it is indead your car to sell, no one later is going to show up with title in hand and claim it to be theirs. I fthe law was to pull you over and show proof of ownership you can, if not it could be confiscated (I think this has happened before). As for all the other stuff people try to get the best possible deal they can, it's human nature.

Randall Klein · 11-09-2007, 03:45 PM

Jim Cimaroli told a tire kicker one time: "It's for sale, not on sale"...although I think the words were in capital letters!

John Kelley · 11-09-2007, 04:18 PM

I bought one car without a title one time........NEVER AGAIN !!! It was a COSTLY situation to get out of !!!
I'd at least have a Law Officer come examine the vehicle and go over it. If the seller gets shaky I'd walk away !!!

Jeff Lee · 11-09-2007, 05:50 PM

I had a race car rolling shell stolen from me once. It was an ex-Pro Stock '68 Barracuda notchback. I sold the car, he said he'd be over the next day with his trailer and then took 4+ weeks to come and get it from the apartment complex parking lot that I lived at. Of course he finally shows up, knocks on my door and want's to know where the car is. I told him "same place it was when you paid for it". Of course it wasn't, I looked like a thief and I felt like crap. But not enough to give him his money back.
So a year or two later my future wife and I and another couple were driving around Phoenix looking at the Christmas lights. I cut through a neighborhood and what do I see but the old 'Cuda sitting in a driveway! I called the guy I sold it at 1:30 in the morning to let him know what I found. He arrived the next morning with the Sheriff and his title and confiscated the car. Apparently it had bounced around a few owners since being stolen.
Now the new 5.38 Dana 60 was missing but there were now a lot of 440 parts in the trunk including a tunnel-ram, headers, solid roller valve-train, etc. The guy tried to tell the Sheriff that was never part of the car. "Too bad" said the Sheriff!
The rightful owner elected not to file charges and took his stuff home. I was exhonerated. Everybody was happy except a few thieves and their wortless bill of sale(s).

Now on your other problems, my friend Mark has his '70 Challenger D/S for sale also. It's on this site and Racing Junk also. Now Mark we wheels and deals in muscle cars all the time. He even has his own auction company. I can tell you this, he's more frustrated in trying to sell this stocker (his grandma is the original owner) than any 10 musclecars combined! And he does have title.
He's been flooded with questions starting with "what's the original engine" (no, I'm not an idiot and am not giving away an original HEMI Challenger with a 4-speed for $27,500, it's a factory 318 car w/ slap-stick auto), "What is the original color" (it was Burnt Orange Metallic, now it's Ford Bright Tangerine Mettalic), "What's the original interior color" (Burnt Orange, now black). Then they want to pick his brain for an hour and eventually it seems to come out that they've always fantasized about having a stocker & they seem to have one in the barn and "wouldn't it be cool if I built one of dem?"
One guy was "buying his plane ticket" to come buy the car. Then his "auto body man" called him and told him how rusty the car is and he cancelled the flight. Well, I guess you've never seen factory Burnt Orange Metallic paint still on the bottom of a car and when you see it in pictures you automatically assume it's all rusted up. Mark offered to pay for his flight if he could find rust an the car but that wan't good enough. The car has never been out of Arizona except to race.
So for those tire kickers, go price a mint rust-free, never even a parking lot ding Challenger body and then put a 440 stocker engine together with a 4-speed Jerico. Put a beautiful paint job on it. How quickly can you eat up $27,500? If you can do it cheaper, go do it. If not, give him a call. Like you said "For Sale", "Not on Sale"!
Yep Terrance, we feel your pain!

Ronnie Smith Jr · 11-09-2007, 10:28 PM

Smitty, et al

I know what you're talking about. I had my superstock operation up for sale for a period of time before it was sold. I had every swinging %$#@ calling and asking questions about the car; similar to those which have already been mentioned above. The ad was specifically detailed about the car, engine, drivetrain and chassis and the typical idiots would call and ask if it was "a tube chassis car" and "I'll give you $10k for it" when they had never come to see the car. I don't call them so much as tire kickers as I do strokers. Even had one from overseas who verbally committed to buying the car and for the next two weeks I facilitated and documented the necessary steps to ship it to that specific country (and it wasn't an African country either). Some of the other Class Racers on this site had dealt with him too. The first person who came to see the car bought it.

Same thing goes with motors, trans and other parts. When you have quality top of the line pieces and equipment for specific stock and/or superstock classes, with few exceptions, the sellers are taking it in the shorts when they sell their pieces.

Preachin to the choir...

Dave Goob Cook · 11-10-2007, 12:57 PM

That is why I have to rent about 6000 s.f of inside storage and 5 acres for the rest of my junk, I can't deal with the strokes to try to sell something......I have things I don't want or need, but won't give it away to azzholes either.

I'll burn stuff and throw it in a dumpster in front of a "buyer" before I'll be insulted, maybe that is just me, but I got sick of that stuff in a hurry from being in business for many years.

I refuse to place an ad in any local papers like the Trader, you get every idiot with no money, no life, and no prospects wanting to kick the tires and see all your stuff.

I only advertise and deal over the net from established message board classifieds, and have had no troubles. I have used Racingjunk, back before it got big.

I hate selling stuff.......just because of the strokes.

11-10-2007, 02:22 PM

One of the reasons people ask if it has a title is because a banker will loan money on something with a title. I don't know many who will loan money on a "race car."

my opinion..

tgriffith · 11-10-2007, 02:35 PM

tire kicking is all part of looking for a good deal or the rite deal,,,I traffic and trade in race cars as a hobby,,,the best way to sell something is NOT to MIS represent it,,,,Ive run into ads that list a car runs 1.00 under and thanks the drag race central and some investigative work,,,,you will find the car has never been 1.00 under or even .50 under at that,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or you find that the last time the car was run was 2005 ,,even though it supposedly run every weekend,,,,,,,Dean rebeiro gave me some good advice,,,never buy a racecar on the starting line,,,alway sbuy it at the ET shack,,,,,(so to speak),,,,

on the title issue,,,,,having a title is just good business

11-10-2007, 09:50 PM

Thanks guys for all your opinions on this subject, It just gets your blood boiling when some questions come up that are stupid in my opinion. I can understand somewhat about the title thing but I also did some research concerning bills of sale; if I wanted a title I could have got one from the NC DMV but I knew the previous owner and they knew the original owners. I checked the VIN and it is clean, hell I even ran the numbers I found own the axles in the car and they come back to the original builder of the car dating back to 1982! I feel comfortable I have a legit peice. I told a friend today that I would sleep in that SOB before I undersold it. When I bought it I saw the flaws it had but I knew for what I got and what I paid I couldn't build it that cheap. Do you think if I offered it up for $1000 or best offer those same guys who are concerned about it not having a title would not think twice about buying it?

11-09-2007, 02:59 PM	#1
Terrance Smith Guest Posts: n/a	Tire Kickers I have been wanting to get a pulse of what others think of this subject, people who want you to give them something for nothing. I have an add in the classified section and on Racing Junk. I have a received a couple calls with varying questions; does it have a title, is it street legal, is it a rust bucket, can you send pics etc. One of the things I don't understand is what is the deal with titles and race cars? The last time I checked MPR, Qauy, F.J. Smith, Bickel, and Haas etc. didn't give out titles, if they do someone please enlighten me. When I bought my car I got a bill of sale, I didn't intend on driving it on the street and if I did I could use that bill of sale to get a title. Street legal; how many real race car buyers are looking in the classifieds of pages like Racing Junk, ND, DR, or here on Class Racer for a street car? not many that I have seen. I don't know many cars that have 5.67 gears and 14x32 slicks that are street legal but there could be. One gentlemen called and asked a bunch of questions, asked me to complare my car to Joe's and I wouldn't do it. I don't know Joe, I only know my car. Then last but not least car value; I don't own an MPR, PMR, Quay, F.J. Smith, or Wisecarver built car but it is a well built peice and I think I have it priced right for what it is. It amazes me how people want you to give you stuff away; I don't know where you can find a car that is NHRA certifed and is almost ready to run with minor changes for the price I have my vehicle listed at. Yet I have had people tell me it's more work they they want to do, if adding carpet and a seat to vehicle to make it legal to race is too much work I don't know what to tell a person. I'm going to get off my soap box, I am sure no one cares but I needed to vent so I figured I let it out here. I am sure some folks have been through the same stuff. Smitty

11-09-2007, 03:24 PM	#2
Chuck Garey Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 173 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Tire Kickers Smitty, I cannot speak for every one here but in most cases the title is peace of mind. Having the title in your hands assures the buyer of a couple things, it is indead your car to sell, no one later is going to show up with title in hand and claim it to be theirs. I fthe law was to pull you over and show proof of ownership you can, if not it could be confiscated (I think this has happened before). As for all the other stuff people try to get the best possible deal they can, it's human nature.

11-09-2007, 03:45 PM	#3
Randall Klein Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 785 Likes: 45 Liked 316 Times in 67 Posts	Re: Tire Kickers Jim Cimaroli told a tire kicker one time: "It's for sale, not on sale"...although I think the words were in capital letters!

11-09-2007, 04:18 PM	#4
John Kelley Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tightwad,TEXAS Posts: 911 Likes: 6 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Tire Kickers I bought one car without a title one time........NEVER AGAIN !!! It was a COSTLY situation to get out of !!! I'd at least have a Law Officer come examine the vehicle and go over it. If the seller gets shaky I'd walk away !!!

11-09-2007, 05:50 PM	#5
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Tire Kickers I had a race car rolling shell stolen from me once. It was an ex-Pro Stock '68 Barracuda notchback. I sold the car, he said he'd be over the next day with his trailer and then took 4+ weeks to come and get it from the apartment complex parking lot that I lived at. Of course he finally shows up, knocks on my door and want's to know where the car is. I told him "same place it was when you paid for it". Of course it wasn't, I looked like a thief and I felt like crap. But not enough to give him his money back. So a year or two later my future wife and I and another couple were driving around Phoenix looking at the Christmas lights. I cut through a neighborhood and what do I see but the old 'Cuda sitting in a driveway! I called the guy I sold it at 1:30 in the morning to let him know what I found. He arrived the next morning with the Sheriff and his title and confiscated the car. Apparently it had bounced around a few owners since being stolen. Now the new 5.38 Dana 60 was missing but there were now a lot of 440 parts in the trunk including a tunnel-ram, headers, solid roller valve-train, etc. The guy tried to tell the Sheriff that was never part of the car. "Too bad" said the Sheriff! The rightful owner elected not to file charges and took his stuff home. I was exhonerated. Everybody was happy except a few thieves and their wortless bill of sale(s). Now on your other problems, my friend Mark has his '70 Challenger D/S for sale also. It's on this site and Racing Junk also. Now Mark we wheels and deals in muscle cars all the time. He even has his own auction company. I can tell you this, he's more frustrated in trying to sell this stocker (his grandma is the original owner) than any 10 musclecars combined! And he does have title. He's been flooded with questions starting with "what's the original engine" (no, I'm not an idiot and am not giving away an original HEMI Challenger with a 4-speed for $27,500, it's a factory 318 car w/ slap-stick auto), "What is the original color" (it was Burnt Orange Metallic, now it's Ford Bright Tangerine Mettalic), "What's the original interior color" (Burnt Orange, now black). Then they want to pick his brain for an hour and eventually it seems to come out that they've always fantasized about having a stocker & they seem to have one in the barn and "wouldn't it be cool if I built one of dem?" One guy was "buying his plane ticket" to come buy the car. Then his "auto body man" called him and told him how rusty the car is and he cancelled the flight. Well, I guess you've never seen factory Burnt Orange Metallic paint still on the bottom of a car and when you see it in pictures you automatically assume it's all rusted up. Mark offered to pay for his flight if he could find rust an the car but that wan't good enough. The car has never been out of Arizona except to race. So for those tire kickers, go price a mint rust-free, never even a parking lot ding Challenger body and then put a 440 stocker engine together with a 4-speed Jerico. Put a beautiful paint job on it. How quickly can you eat up $27,500? If you can do it cheaper, go do it. If not, give him a call. Like you said "For Sale", "Not on Sale"! Yep Terrance, we feel your pain! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

11-09-2007, 10:28 PM	#6
Ronnie Smith Jr Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 220 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Tire Kickers Smitty, et al I know what you're talking about. I had my superstock operation up for sale for a period of time before it was sold. I had every swinging %$#@ calling and asking questions about the car; similar to those which have already been mentioned above. The ad was specifically detailed about the car, engine, drivetrain and chassis and the typical idiots would call and ask if it was "a tube chassis car" and "I'll give you $10k for it" when they had never come to see the car. I don't call them so much as tire kickers as I do strokers. Even had one from overseas who verbally committed to buying the car and for the next two weeks I facilitated and documented the necessary steps to ship it to that specific country (and it wasn't an African country either). Some of the other Class Racers on this site had dealt with him too. The first person who came to see the car bought it. Same thing goes with motors, trans and other parts. When you have quality top of the line pieces and equipment for specific stock and/or superstock classes, with few exceptions, the sellers are taking it in the shorts when they sell their pieces. Preachin to the choir...

11-10-2007, 12:57 PM	#7
Dave Goob Cook Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 422 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Tire Kickers That is why I have to rent about 6000 s.f of inside storage and 5 acres for the rest of my junk, I can't deal with the strokes to try to sell something......I have things I don't want or need, but won't give it away to azzholes either. I'll burn stuff and throw it in a dumpster in front of a "buyer" before I'll be insulted, maybe that is just me, but I got sick of that stuff in a hurry from being in business for many years. I refuse to place an ad in any local papers like the Trader, you get every idiot with no money, no life, and no prospects wanting to kick the tires and see all your stuff. I only advertise and deal over the net from established message board classifieds, and have had no troubles. I have used Racingjunk, back before it got big. I hate selling stuff.......just because of the strokes.

11-10-2007, 02:22 PM	#8
Chad Speier Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Tire Kickers One of the reasons people ask if it has a title is because a banker will loan money on something with a title. I don't know many who will loan money on a "race car." my opinion..

11-10-2007, 02:35 PM	#9
tgriffith Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 187 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Tire Kickers tire kicking is all part of looking for a good deal or the rite deal,,,I traffic and trade in race cars as a hobby,,,the best way to sell something is NOT to MIS represent it,,,,Ive run into ads that list a car runs 1.00 under and thanks the drag race central and some investigative work,,,,you will find the car has never been 1.00 under or even .50 under at that,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or you find that the last time the car was run was 2005 ,,even though it supposedly run every weekend,,,,,,,Dean rebeiro gave me some good advice,,,never buy a racecar on the starting line,,,alway sbuy it at the ET shack,,,,,(so to speak),,,, on the title issue,,,,,having a title is just good business

11-10-2007, 09:50 PM	#10
Terrance Smith Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Tire Kickers Thanks guys for all your opinions on this subject, It just gets your blood boiling when some questions come up that are stupid in my opinion. I can understand somewhat about the title thing but I also did some research concerning bills of sale; if I wanted a title I could have got one from the NC DMV but I knew the previous owner and they knew the original owners. I checked the VIN and it is clean, hell I even ran the numbers I found own the axles in the car and they come back to the original builder of the car dating back to 1982! I feel comfortable I have a legit peice. I told a friend today that I would sleep in that SOB before I undersold it. When I bought it I saw the flaws it had but I knew for what I got and what I paid I couldn't build it that cheap. Do you think if I offered it up for $1000 or best offer those same guys who are concerned about it not having a title would not think twice about buying it?