2-barrel Roch Only Questions

oldskool · 10-07-2021, 01:44 PM

For any of you 2-barrel GM racers who have experience with and/or know a lot about Stock racing with 2-barrel Roch combinations, I have questions.

By now, most everybody here knows, I'm a Pontiac Freek. So, what sparked my interest in this subject is the fact that I don't know of a single Pontiac Stocker, with a 350 or larger cube Pontiac engine, that has run a 2-barrel combo in national competition.

IIRC, it was Billy Nees who posted that there are lots of different sizes of the Roch 2-barrel, & most 2-barrel Pontiacs had the small ones, making them bad combos, at current hp factors. I think he also mentioned that Don Himes ran a 2-barrel Pontiac wagon, in a Pure Stock class maybe, many years ago.

Anyhow, there were lots of 350 & 400 cube Pontiacs that came with a 2-barrel Roch. Even a GTO came with one ! And, a few 455's came with one. I bought a '71 wagon 455 that still had one on it, still running.

So, I'm investigating to see if there were any of the 2-barrel Pontiacs, mid-'70's & older, 350 cube & larger, that might have a carb size & hp factor that would make a decent combo for a Stocker build. To make it clear, I am NOT building such a car. I'm investigating the possibilities of a competitive 2-barrel Pontiac combo. Lets confine the year models to '67-'76.

1st possibility I see is a '67 GTO, 255hp 400 cube. hp factor is still 255hp. Don't know if anybody has ever tried to run one, in serious national competition. There is no venturi size listed. But there is a carb number listed. "...2GC-7027061..."

So, for you Roch 2-barrel experts, what is the venturi size of that carb ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

At the current 255hp factor, a '67 GTO would have to run K,L or M Stock. Would need to run mid 12's, or slightly slower, to run under the index. Obviously, the 2-barrel would be the limiting factor. Don't know if that combo could run that quick. What do you 2-barrel experts think ?

I'm not familiar with the popular competitive sbc 2-barrel combos. So, what are the popular years & combos ? What classes are they doing well in ? What is the venturi size for the competitive combo's ? Sorry for all the dummy questions. But I'll have to plead almost complete ignorance of this subject.

oldskool · 10-07-2021, 02:39 PM

OK, here's another possibility to consider.

'73/'74 Pontiac 350 2-barrel. 210hp factor

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

Venturi size 1.186. I assume that is a "small" one ?

Looks like it would have to run the 16lbs/hp class. So, with the current 13.45 index, it would need to run low 13.40's, on a bad day/slow track. IMO, that's a tall order for a 2-barrel low compression 350 Pontiac.

What do you 2-barrel experts think ?

Just for kicks, I looked up the '73 Chevy 350 2-barrel. It has a 230hp factor & needs to run real high 12's. But, it also has a bigger carb, 1.250 venturi size, and more compression.

I just don't know how to estimate probable power output & ET's for the Pontiac, considering the smaller carb & less compression. There is only 20hp difference in the 2 hp factors. So, would the bigger carb & more compression give the sbc more than 20hp advantage ?

Just looked on Class Racer Info. Seems that for '67-'73 400 & larger cubes, there are no venturi sizes listed for any 2-barrel. Are they listed on the official NHRA site ?

Stan Weiss · 10-07-2021, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Don, If you notice, the 2 bbl hp was last lowered in 2002. Many decades after Don Himes' 74 wagon. Also a few years after Danny's experiment. I would guess that someone with a 4 bbl car, had enough of that combo, after Bill Rink got through with it.
They will now run Q/SA and down.
An all out 2 bbl. combo will take a different gear, converter, headers, camshaft, and a different tune up.
With today's technology and available goodies, plus the fact that they've got Ray Charles checking carburetors now, I 'd say a Q/SA Ventura would go at least .5 under. I know it would with a stick.
Not a rocket ship, but should be easy to build, and fairly cheap ( in perspective, that is)

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

Wow ! So you think somebody ran a 2-barrel '74 Vent, and got NHRA to lower the hp factor. Any idea who that might have been, & how quick they ran ?

I also came up with some more 2-barrel questions. On the Class Racer Info site, the listings for the earlier model Pontiacs list the carb number or numbers, but there are no numbers given for the Venturi size.

So, can somebody here look up those numbers & determine what the venturi size was on 'em ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...1&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2057

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

OK. The '74-'76's have one of the 1.25 Venturi carbs, on a 400 engine. The '74 can also use the same #46 heads as the '74 350 engines used. So, might this engine have potential, if you could get the hp factor down some ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

The '74 can also be used in a Bird, as well as the A-bodies & most of the heavier bodies. So, how about this engine in a base model '74 Bird ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2086

It obviously wouldn't work at 255hp, since the Q-jet version is only 275hp. Question: How much would the 1.25V 2-barrel slow this engine down, from the Q-jet version, with both built to equal levels ?

At 225hp, a Bird could add a little weight & run P/SA, with a 13.45 index. So, anybody think a '74 1.25V 2-barrel 400 could run 13.45 or quicker ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

Stan

oldskool · 10-07-2021, 03:21 PM

Hey looks like I've already visited this subject.

Oh well, it seems that the same subjects keep coming up, over & over. They are argued about, then dropped, then later, somebody else will start another thread on exactly the same subject.

I suppose it happens on all car forums.

Some will say just "Do a search". But, I've found that on this site, it does absolutely no good to do a search. I've tried many times. Get mostly stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject I'm lookin for.

Just noticed that the '74 2-barrel 400 also can use 88.9cc heads, as well as the 1.25" venturi carb. So, it can have a bigger carb & more compression than the '74 350. MIGHT be a better combo ? But, would need a lower hp factor, than 255, to really be a good combo.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

Mark Yacavone · 10-07-2021, 04:00 PM

1.18 carb is the same size as the 305s ..Some of them are under 180 hp. In U/SA , a Pontiac would have to weigh 600+ pounds more, in the same class.. No thanks..
I didn't even mention the 302 FFFFFFords.

The big inch Pontiacs had a 1,250 carb, I believe. Same as the smog 350 Chevys.
The 69-70 350 Chevys have the big 1.375 carb. That's the one that the restricted circle burners use.
69 Chev 350 2v is good. The 70 is even better... 70 4 dr. Nova should run low 12's in N/SA, with no roll bar , belts ,and monkey suit requirements..
One of the best 2V deals is of the blue oval persuasion, but is stick shift only, and we now know it's harder to win with that extra pedal. ;-)

SDT1DYI · 10-07-2021, 06:20 PM

69 and 70 SBC used the 1.375 x 1.686 Rochester. This I believe is the largest Rochester 2 GC .
Some Pontiac's used 1.312 x 1.686 Rochester's. I'm not a Pontiac guy so I can not tell you the motors or years these 2 GCs were used.
I would suggest limiting engine cubic inches to the 350's if using a 2 barrel.
2 barrels are adversely effected ( more so than four barrels) by Altitude and temperatures. Making them more difficult to predict an accurate run completion number, has been my experience.
They can be Fast as many have soft HP ratings by NHRA. But they are way different than running a 4 barrel combo in what they like or don't like.

Good Luck.
Steve Teeter STK/SS # 620
70 Camaro M/SA 350 2 barrel.

MR DERBY CITY · 10-07-2021, 06:36 PM

The 350 ci 2 bbl Ventura has been campaigned by Ron Thorne in D3 …I have not seen him run the car in years ..
.He does visit this site so MAYBE he can give YOU some insight regarding the combination..……………

Bunkster · 10-08-2021, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Danny Ashley View Post
Back in the late 80's when I had my 1974 GTO I considered the 2-bbl. because that body was a one engine combination for a 4-bbl. I obtained a manifold and carburetor and knowing that the late W.A.Lee worked on 2-bbl's, I sent it to him. He called me up and said they had tried it already and that the carb was too small and it would slow the car one and a half seconds. I had looked at Allen Peters at the time and made my decision off him but W.A. informed me that the '69 Chevy had a much larger venturi. He didn't want to do it because he felt I was wasting my time and sent it back. I really didn't think it would kill it that much so I decided to try it anyway.
It was in the fall and we had decent air but nothing like I had just ran at the Keystones where I was no.1 qualifier and ran 11.97 in L/SA which was really quick for that time. The car at that time with the 2 bbl. was P/SA and the index was an odd number for some reason of 13.54. My first pass was 13.53 followed by a 13.52. The car had no power. I had to almost floor it to do a burnout. I came back and installed the 4-bbl. set-up which is quick to do on a Pontiac and went right back up and went 12.22. I'll admit that the car could go quicker with maybe more gear, smaller headers, cam change, etc. but it didn't look worth the time and money to flogg it out especially when the 4bbl. was so good.
One last thought. Please don't base the 2bbl. combination off of Bill Rink's car. Bill is a good friend and carburetor customer and I can tell you that his engine is a "Top Shelf" Parson & Meyers piece as is everything else on the car. Definitely not a "Dime Rocket". Just a "Rocket" in it's day.

oldskool · 10-08-2021, 08:26 AM

" The big inch Pontiacs had a 1,250 carb, I believe..."

When you say "big inch", do you mean the 455, or does that also include the 400's, as opposed to the 350's using a smaller carb ?

Don't mean to be picky. But I've always thought of the 421, 428, & 455 as the "big inch" Pontiac motors. But obviously, a 400 is bigger than a 301, 326, & 350.

"...Ron Thorne...He does visit this site...MAYBE he can give YOU some insight regarding the combination."

Thanks for that info ! Do you know if he goes by that name here, or something else ?

"...My first pass was 13.53 followed by a 13.52..."

Well, without trying to improve that combo, he ran low 13.50's, back in the 1980's. The 16lb/hp auto class index is 13.45.

So, here's some questions for you guys who were doing this back in the '80's & are still doing it, or at least still keeping up with the changing technology.

(1) How much more power can be made with this engine today, than back in the '80's ? I'm assuming that the current cam/spring rules should allow for at least a small power improvement, even with the small carb limitation. But, I have no way of knowing that. Just going by the fact that most all popular combos are now much quicker than they were 30+ years ago.

(2) How much quicker would a good TH200 trans be, than the TH350 that was required in the '80's ?

(3) Are today's available converters quicker than those of the '80's ? If so, by aprox how much, for a combo like this one ?

(4) Considering Danny's times, plus the use of currently available quicker parts, what ET do ya'll think this combo would be capable of.

I realize this is not a good combo. There are LOTS of better Pontiac combos. BUT, there are a LOT of guys racing combos that are not good. And, they are doin so for various reasons. I suppose some are doin it just because they've been racing the same car for a long time, & wanna keep racing it.

Some probably just don't have the money to buy or build what they'd really like to have. Some probably figure that since they can't buy or build what they'd prefer, then since what they have will run under the index, it'll do just as well as any other combo they could afford. So, they just stay with what they have & know.

I'm just guessing about a Pontiac Stock racer. He has a '69 Bird. He was running a RAIV engine. As the story goes, one of the heads got messed up. So, he switched over to the legal D-port engine for the car. It runs good, in the mid 10's. But, almost the same engine has a lower hp factor, in a '68 Bird. That has been a popular combo since the cars were new. I'm assuming this guy keeps running his '69 because he has it, knows it, & likes it, not because he thinks it's the best combo.

That's sorta my reason for digging around in this 2-barrel deal. These old Pontiacs are getting a lot harder to find, & more expensive, for anything decent. But, from what I've seen, in recent years, a '73-'74 Ventura would be a lot cheaper than a Bird, in similar condition. So, if starting from scratch, a guy could probably build a Ventura a lot cheaper than a Bird.

I suppose this might be considered a possible "dime rocket" build, tho it wouldn't exactly be a rocket. It would be more of an " I can build this car fairly cheap & it will run the index" type build.

Then there is the '67 2-barrel GTO build I mentioned. Even if it would be a better combo, a good '67 body won't come cheap. But, I'd still like to get opinions from you guys with 2-barrel experience, as to the potential of these 2-barrel Pontiac combos, or other 2-barrel Pontiac combos that you think might be better.

Hey, since VERY few examples exist, all this is mere speculation on my part. Guys with experience can provide more accurate info.

The only 2-barrel racing experience I've had was on a Pontiac powered dirt tracker. I did win a feature, a heat race, a trohpy dash, & had some other top 5 finishes, but that don't provide any answers to the drag racing questions I have.

Thanks to all you guys who have & will try to help me find answers to my 2-barrel Pontiac questions !

MR DERBY CITY · 10-08-2021, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

"...Ron Thorne...He does visit this site...MAYBE he can give YOU some insight regarding the combination."

Thanks for that info ! Do you know if he goes by that name here, or something else ?

He goes by the name Ron Thorne ….I believe he lives in the Evansville, Indiana area …

10-07-2021, 01:44 PM	#1
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	2-barrel Roch Only Questions For any of you 2-barrel GM racers who have experience with and/or know a lot about Stock racing with 2-barrel Roch combinations, I have questions. By now, most everybody here knows, I'm a Pontiac Freek. So, what sparked my interest in this subject is the fact that I don't know of a single Pontiac Stocker, with a 350 or larger cube Pontiac engine, that has run a 2-barrel combo in national competition. IIRC, it was Billy Nees who posted that there are lots of different sizes of the Roch 2-barrel, & most 2-barrel Pontiacs had the small ones, making them bad combos, at current hp factors. I think he also mentioned that Don Himes ran a 2-barrel Pontiac wagon, in a Pure Stock class maybe, many years ago. Anyhow, there were lots of 350 & 400 cube Pontiacs that came with a 2-barrel Roch. Even a GTO came with one ! And, a few 455's came with one. I bought a '71 wagon 455 that still had one on it, still running. So, I'm investigating to see if there were any of the 2-barrel Pontiacs, mid-'70's & older, 350 cube & larger, that might have a carb size & hp factor that would make a decent combo for a Stocker build. To make it clear, I am NOT building such a car. I'm investigating the possibilities of a competitive 2-barrel Pontiac combo. Lets confine the year models to '67-'76. 1st possibility I see is a '67 GTO, 255hp 400 cube. hp factor is still 255hp. Don't know if anybody has ever tried to run one, in serious national competition. There is no venturi size listed. But there is a carb number listed. "...2GC-7027061..." So, for you Roch 2-barrel experts, what is the venturi size of that carb ? http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac At the current 255hp factor, a '67 GTO would have to run K,L or M Stock. Would need to run mid 12's, or slightly slower, to run under the index. Obviously, the 2-barrel would be the limiting factor. Don't know if that combo could run that quick. What do you 2-barrel experts think ? I'm not familiar with the popular competitive sbc 2-barrel combos. So, what are the popular years & combos ? What classes are they doing well in ? What is the venturi size for the competitive combo's ? Sorry for all the dummy questions. But I'll have to plead almost complete ignorance of this subject. Last edited by oldskool; 10-07-2021 at 01:57 PM.

10-07-2021, 02:39 PM	#2
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: 2-barrel Roch Only Questions OK, here's another possibility to consider. '73/'74 Pontiac 350 2-barrel. 210hp factor http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac Venturi size 1.186. I assume that is a "small" one ? Looks like it would have to run the 16lbs/hp class. So, with the current 13.45 index, it would need to run low 13.40's, on a bad day/slow track. IMO, that's a tall order for a 2-barrel low compression 350 Pontiac. What do you 2-barrel experts think ? Just for kicks, I looked up the '73 Chevy 350 2-barrel. It has a 230hp factor & needs to run real high 12's. But, it also has a bigger carb, 1.250 venturi size, and more compression. I just don't know how to estimate probable power output & ET's for the Pontiac, considering the smaller carb & less compression. There is only 20hp difference in the 2 hp factors. So, would the bigger carb & more compression give the sbc more than 20hp advantage ? Just looked on Class Racer Info. Seems that for '67-'73 400 & larger cubes, there are no venturi sizes listed for any 2-barrel. Are they listed on the official NHRA site ? Last edited by oldskool; 10-07-2021 at 03:12 PM.

10-07-2021, 04:00 PM	#5
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,786 Likes: 2,878 Liked 5,075 Times in 1,934 Posts	Re: 2-barrel Roch Only Questions 1.18 carb is the same size as the 305s ..Some of them are under 180 hp. In U/SA , a Pontiac would have to weigh 600+ pounds more, in the same class.. No thanks.. I didn't even mention the 302 FFFFFFords. The big inch Pontiacs had a 1,250 carb, I believe. Same as the smog 350 Chevys. The 69-70 350 Chevys have the big 1.375 carb. That's the one that the restricted circle burners use. 69 Chev 350 2v is good. The 70 is even better... 70 4 dr. Nova should run low 12's in N/SA, with no roll bar , belts ,and monkey suit requirements.. One of the best 2V deals is of the blue oval persuasion, but is stick shift only, and we now know it's harder to win with that extra pedal. ;-) __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

10-07-2021, 06:20 PM	#6
SDT1DYI Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Indianola Washington Posts: 399 Likes: 0 Liked 453 Times in 146 Posts	Re: 2-barrel Roch Only Questions 69 and 70 SBC used the 1.375 x 1.686 Rochester. This I believe is the largest Rochester 2 GC . Some Pontiac's used 1.312 x 1.686 Rochester's. I'm not a Pontiac guy so I can not tell you the motors or years these 2 GCs were used. I would suggest limiting engine cubic inches to the 350's if using a 2 barrel. 2 barrels are adversely effected ( more so than four barrels) by Altitude and temperatures. Making them more difficult to predict an accurate run completion number, has been my experience. They can be Fast as many have soft HP ratings by NHRA. But they are way different than running a 4 barrel combo in what they like or don't like. Good Luck. Steve Teeter STK/SS # 620 70 Camaro M/SA 350 2 barrel.

10-07-2021, 06:36 PM	#7
MR DERBY CITY VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Derby City, USA Posts: 3,608 Likes: 1,068 Liked 7,781 Times in 1,494 Posts	Re: 2-barrel Roch Only Questions The 350 ci 2 bbl Ventura has been campaigned by Ron Thorne in D3 …I have not seen him run the car in years .. .He does visit this site so MAYBE he can give YOU some insight regarding the combination..……………

10-07-2021, 03:21 PM	#4
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: 2-barrel Roch Only Questions Hey looks like I've already visited this subject. Oh well, it seems that the same subjects keep coming up, over & over. They are argued about, then dropped, then later, somebody else will start another thread on exactly the same subject. I suppose it happens on all car forums. Some will say just "Do a search". But, I've found that on this site, it does absolutely no good to do a search. I've tried many times. Get mostly stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject I'm lookin for. Just noticed that the '74 2-barrel 400 also can use 88.9cc heads, as well as the 1.25" venturi carb. So, it can have a bigger carb & more compression than the '74 350. MIGHT be a better combo ? But, would need a lower hp factor, than 255, to really be a good combo. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac Last edited by oldskool; 10-07-2021 at 04:00 PM.

10-08-2021, 08:17 AM	#8
Bunkster Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 307 Likes: 0 Liked 43 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 2-barrel Roch Only Questions Originally Posted by Danny Ashley View Post Back in the late 80's when I had my 1974 GTO I considered the 2-bbl. because that body was a one engine combination for a 4-bbl. I obtained a manifold and carburetor and knowing that the late W.A.Lee worked on 2-bbl's, I sent it to him. He called me up and said they had tried it already and that the carb was too small and it would slow the car one and a half seconds. I had looked at Allen Peters at the time and made my decision off him but W.A. informed me that the '69 Chevy had a much larger venturi. He didn't want to do it because he felt I was wasting my time and sent it back. I really didn't think it would kill it that much so I decided to try it anyway. It was in the fall and we had decent air but nothing like I had just ran at the Keystones where I was no.1 qualifier and ran 11.97 in L/SA which was really quick for that time. The car at that time with the 2 bbl. was P/SA and the index was an odd number for some reason of 13.54. My first pass was 13.53 followed by a 13.52. The car had no power. I had to almost floor it to do a burnout. I came back and installed the 4-bbl. set-up which is quick to do on a Pontiac and went right back up and went 12.22. I'll admit that the car could go quicker with maybe more gear, smaller headers, cam change, etc. but it didn't look worth the time and money to flogg it out especially when the 4bbl. was so good. One last thought. Please don't base the 2bbl. combination off of Bill Rink's car. Bill is a good friend and carburetor customer and I can tell you that his engine is a "Top Shelf" Parson & Meyers piece as is everything else on the car. Definitely not a "Dime Rocket". Just a "Rocket" in it's day.

10-08-2021, 08:26 AM	#9
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: 2-barrel Roch Only Questions " The big inch Pontiacs had a 1,250 carb, I believe..." When you say "big inch", do you mean the 455, or does that also include the 400's, as opposed to the 350's using a smaller carb ? Don't mean to be picky. But I've always thought of the 421, 428, & 455 as the "big inch" Pontiac motors. But obviously, a 400 is bigger than a 301, 326, & 350. "...Ron Thorne...He does visit this site...MAYBE he can give YOU some insight regarding the combination." Thanks for that info ! Do you know if he goes by that name here, or something else ? "...My first pass was 13.53 followed by a 13.52..." Well, without trying to improve that combo, he ran low 13.50's, back in the 1980's. The 16lb/hp auto class index is 13.45. So, here's some questions for you guys who were doing this back in the '80's & are still doing it, or at least still keeping up with the changing technology. (1) How much more power can be made with this engine today, than back in the '80's ? I'm assuming that the current cam/spring rules should allow for at least a small power improvement, even with the small carb limitation. But, I have no way of knowing that. Just going by the fact that most all popular combos are now much quicker than they were 30+ years ago. (2) How much quicker would a good TH200 trans be, than the TH350 that was required in the '80's ? (3) Are today's available converters quicker than those of the '80's ? If so, by aprox how much, for a combo like this one ? (4) Considering Danny's times, plus the use of currently available quicker parts, what ET do ya'll think this combo would be capable of. I realize this is not a good combo. There are LOTS of better Pontiac combos. BUT, there are a LOT of guys racing combos that are not good. And, they are doin so for various reasons. I suppose some are doin it just because they've been racing the same car for a long time, & wanna keep racing it. Some probably just don't have the money to buy or build what they'd really like to have. Some probably figure that since they can't buy or build what they'd prefer, then since what they have will run under the index, it'll do just as well as any other combo they could afford. So, they just stay with what they have & know. I'm just guessing about a Pontiac Stock racer. He has a '69 Bird. He was running a RAIV engine. As the story goes, one of the heads got messed up. So, he switched over to the legal D-port engine for the car. It runs good, in the mid 10's. But, almost the same engine has a lower hp factor, in a '68 Bird. That has been a popular combo since the cars were new. I'm assuming this guy keeps running his '69 because he has it, knows it, & likes it, not because he thinks it's the best combo. That's sorta my reason for digging around in this 2-barrel deal. These old Pontiacs are getting a lot harder to find, & more expensive, for anything decent. But, from what I've seen, in recent years, a '73-'74 Ventura would be a lot cheaper than a Bird, in similar condition. So, if starting from scratch, a guy could probably build a Ventura a lot cheaper than a Bird. I suppose this might be considered a possible "dime rocket" build, tho it wouldn't exactly be a rocket. It would be more of an " I can build this car fairly cheap & it will run the index" type build. Then there is the '67 2-barrel GTO build I mentioned. Even if it would be a better combo, a good '67 body won't come cheap. But, I'd still like to get opinions from you guys with 2-barrel experience, as to the potential of these 2-barrel Pontiac combos, or other 2-barrel Pontiac combos that you think might be better. Hey, since VERY few examples exist, all this is mere speculation on my part. Guys with experience can provide more accurate info. The only 2-barrel racing experience I've had was on a Pontiac powered dirt tracker. I did win a feature, a heat race, a trohpy dash, & had some other top 5 finishes, but that don't provide any answers to the drag racing questions I have. Thanks to all you guys who have & will try to help me find answers to my 2-barrel Pontiac questions ! Last edited by oldskool; 10-08-2021 at 09:35 AM.