Then vs Now - What Happened?

Dan Bennett · 01-13-2009, 02:30 PM

There are a couple of excellent discussions going on here during the offseason, and reading them has brought a question to mind.

My first Indy was in 1966 and it was absolute paradise. Yes, I wanted to see the Pros, but more than anything I wanted to see the cars that were legends as baddest of the bad. These were the guys who were the best in the world at racing cars like I (and my friends) raced.

I'm talking about racers like Bill Spanakos (Monster Mash), Dick Moroso, George Cureton, Jess Tyree, Jere Stahl, Bill Jenkins, Ronnie Sox, Dick Landy, Dyno Don, etc.

Just a few years later I was looking for John Lingenfelter, John Dianna, Ed Hamburger, Mark Coletti, Barry Poole, Bo Laws, Ray Allen, Dave Boertman, Truman Fields, etc.

What's changed? Is it just that I was a serious gear head and took the time to recognize the really heavy hitters? Or that back then things were truly heads up and the fastest was easy to find?

Was it because that there were a bunch of monthly magazines featuring these cars? Was it because there weren't so many national events so seeing any of these guys from across the country was really special?

I honestly don't know and that's why I'm interested in everyone's opinion. I just know that there was a time when class cars truly DID have crowds around them in the pits and the stands didn't empty when they ran.

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, but it doesn't seem like the really excellent racers are household names for race fans any longer.

SSDiv6 · 01-13-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Bennett

There are a couple of excellent discussions going on here during the offseason, and reading them has brought a question to mind.

My first Indy was in 1966 and it was absolute paradise. Yes, I wanted to see the Pros, but more than anything I wanted to see the cars that were legends as baddest of the bad. These were the guys who were the best in the world at racing cars like I (and my friends) raced.

I'm talking about racers like Bill Spanakos (Monster Mash), Dick Moroso, George Cureton, Jess Tyree, Jere Stahl, Bill Jenkins, Ronnie Sox, Dick Landy, Dyno Don, etc.

Just a few years later I was looking for John Lingenfelter, John Dianna, Ed Hamburger, Mark Coletti, Barry Poole, Bo Laws, Ray Allen, Dave Boertman, Truman Fields, etc.

What's changed? Is it just that I was a serious gear head and took the time to recognize the really heavy hitters? Or that back then things were truly heads up and the fastest was easy to find?

Was it because that there were a bunch of monthly magazines featuring these cars? Was it because there weren't so many national events so seeing any of these guys from across the country was really special?

I honestly don't know and that's why I'm interested in everyone's opinion. I just know that there was a time when class cars truly DID have crowds around them in the pits and the stands didn't empty when they ran.

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, but it doesn't seem like the really excellent racers are household names for race fans any longer.

The difference is that in the early days, Sportsman racers had a lot more sponsorhips and factory support. It was the days of the "Factory Wars" and "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday". They got a lot of ink ion adevrtisements and magazines. Today, very few get that type of ink.

In addition, Pro Stock was still a developing from the Super Stock class and was not a big professional class as today. The big Pro's in the early days were T/F and later F/C, which happened to mature also from Super Stock, to AF/X and finally F/C.

Bruce Noland · 01-13-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

The difference is that in the early days, Sportsman racers had a lot more sponsorhips and factory support. It was the days of the "Factory Wars" and "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday". They got a lot of ink ion adevrtisements and magazines. Today, very few get that type of ink.

In addition, Pro Stock was still a developing from the Super Stock class and was not a big professional class as today. The big Pro's in the early days were T/F and later F/C, which happened to mature also from Super Stock, to AF/X and finally F/C.

Very true! And it was all so very new and exciting.

Ed Wright · 01-13-2009, 03:14 PM

Also, we ran off of national records, not the too-soft indexes we have now that just about anything will run under. In hot weather you may not find more than three or four cars at a race that could actually break out. We were allowed to run 1/10th under. The faster cars usually won. Now, it's dumbed down to mostly et brackets. Unless you get in a popular class with a good chance for a heads-up, you won't actually do much real racing. Stockers were in magazines, SSDI covered the east coast cars, and Car Craft (John Diana, and later Rick Voglin were racers and the editors) covered the west coast cars. Imagine the indexes lowered one second today, that is about what we had then.

Ed Fernandez · 01-13-2009, 03:31 PM

In other words PROGRESS.It's a different world than then,just as 20 years in the future what we're doing is going to seem like the 2nd golden age.It's like that in every phase of our lives.We dont like it,but that's
the way the world revolves.
(I miss those days though).....................................

Ed F.

Michael Beard · 01-13-2009, 03:37 PM

We're also in an attention-deficit age... there are many more things for people to spend their money on and/or pay attention to. Also, "back in the day" everything was 'new', and people marveled at everything. The general populace today has expectations born out of the "been there, done that" mentality. That being said, I think that many folks would be newly impressed at today's show if they would go again (or for the first time).

Chad Rhodes · 01-13-2009, 03:37 PM

I think those were the innovators of the day, and Class racing was where it is at.

Now the NMRA, NMCA, ORSCA, etc outlaw street car stuff is where the attention is, and so thats where the innovators are

Stephen & Horace Johnson · 01-14-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

I think those were the innovators of the day, and Class racing was where it is at.

Now the NMRA, NMCA, ORSCA, etc outlaw street car stuff is where the attention is, and so thats where the innovators are

I totally agree, the people around our area, ask us all the time to come ORSCA racing. Thats the happening thing in the SOUTH. I do race NMRA and some ORSCA race when it doesnt conflict with NHRA-IHRA. The

Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Ed Wright · 01-14-2009, 04:57 PM

Do they have SS classes?

Superfan1 · 01-13-2009, 03:48 PM

I agree with everything that has been previously stated; but the "hardcore" fan, like me, will always recognize the Sportsman stars. Peter Biondo, Dan Fletcher, David Rampy, Anthony Bertozzi, Vinny Barone, and Michael Iacono, just to name a few, are well known and loved by fans like me. The "casual" fan attends a National event primarily for the fuel cars; most of them leave the stands when Pro Stock and Pro Stock motorcycle qualifying starts, and the rest of them leave when the Sportsman cars run. The "casual" fan attends a National event Friday - Sunday (Friday - Monday for Indy); the "hardcore" fan is there from Thursday - Sunday (Wednesday - Monday for Indy). That behavior will probably never change, that is why the attendance is so low at most Divisional races and National Opens; only the "hardcore" fan attends a Divisional event or a National Open, and "hardcore" fans are definitely the minority.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1

01-13-2009, 02:30 PM	#1
Dan Bennett Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 437 Likes: 840 Liked 591 Times in 134 Posts	Then vs Now - What Happened? There are a couple of excellent discussions going on here during the offseason, and reading them has brought a question to mind. My first Indy was in 1966 and it was absolute paradise. Yes, I wanted to see the Pros, but more than anything I wanted to see the cars that were legends as baddest of the bad. These were the guys who were the best in the world at racing cars like I (and my friends) raced. I'm talking about racers like Bill Spanakos (Monster Mash), Dick Moroso, George Cureton, Jess Tyree, Jere Stahl, Bill Jenkins, Ronnie Sox, Dick Landy, Dyno Don, etc. Just a few years later I was looking for John Lingenfelter, John Dianna, Ed Hamburger, Mark Coletti, Barry Poole, Bo Laws, Ray Allen, Dave Boertman, Truman Fields, etc. What's changed? Is it just that I was a serious gear head and took the time to recognize the really heavy hitters? Or that back then things were truly heads up and the fastest was easy to find? Was it because that there were a bunch of monthly magazines featuring these cars? Was it because there weren't so many national events so seeing any of these guys from across the country was really special? I honestly don't know and that's why I'm interested in everyone's opinion. I just know that there was a time when class cars truly DID have crowds around them in the pits and the stands didn't empty when they ran. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, but it doesn't seem like the really excellent racers are household names for race fans any longer.

01-13-2009, 03:14 PM	#4
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Then vs Now - What Happened? Also, we ran off of national records, not the too-soft indexes we have now that just about anything will run under. In hot weather you may not find more than three or four cars at a race that could actually break out. We were allowed to run 1/10th under. The faster cars usually won. Now, it's dumbed down to mostly et brackets. Unless you get in a popular class with a good chance for a heads-up, you won't actually do much real racing. Stockers were in magazines, SSDI covered the east coast cars, and Car Craft (John Diana, and later Rick Voglin were racers and the editors) covered the west coast cars. Imagine the indexes lowered one second today, that is about what we had then. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

01-13-2009, 03:31 PM	#5
Ed Fernandez Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NOO JOISEY nexta NOO YAWK Posts: 5,879 Likes: 38 Liked 100 Times in 45 Posts	Re: Then vs Now - What Happened? In other words PROGRESS.It's a different world than then,just as 20 years in the future what we're doing is going to seem like the 2nd golden age.It's like that in every phase of our lives.We dont like it,but that's the way the world revolves. (I miss those days though)..................................... Ed F. __________________ Former NHRA #1945 Former IHRA #1945 T/SA

01-13-2009, 03:37 PM	#6
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Then vs Now - What Happened? We're also in an attention-deficit age... there are many more things for people to spend their money on and/or pay attention to. Also, "back in the day" everything was 'new', and people marveled at everything. The general populace today has expectations born out of the "been there, done that" mentality. That being said, I think that many folks would be newly impressed at today's show if they would go again (or for the first time). __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

01-13-2009, 03:37 PM	#7
Chad Rhodes VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Where the Green Grass Grows, AL Posts: 2,375 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Then vs Now - What Happened? I think those were the innovators of the day, and Class racing was where it is at. Now the NMRA, NMCA, ORSCA, etc outlaw street car stuff is where the attention is, and so thats where the innovators are __________________ Chad Rhodes 2113 I/SA

01-14-2009, 04:57 PM	#9
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Then vs Now - What Happened? Do they have SS classes? __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

01-13-2009, 03:48 PM	#10
Superfan1 VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bridgeport,CT. Posts: 1,991 Likes: 1,664 Liked 2,632 Times in 438 Posts	Re: Then vs Now - What Happened? I agree with everything that has been previously stated; but the "hardcore" fan, like me, will always recognize the Sportsman stars. Peter Biondo, Dan Fletcher, David Rampy, Anthony Bertozzi, Vinny Barone, and Michael Iacono, just to name a few, are well known and loved by fans like me. The "casual" fan attends a National event primarily for the fuel cars; most of them leave the stands when Pro Stock and Pro Stock motorcycle qualifying starts, and the rest of them leave when the Sportsman cars run. The "casual" fan attends a National event Friday - Sunday (Friday - Monday for Indy); the "hardcore" fan is there from Thursday - Sunday (Wednesday - Monday for Indy). That behavior will probably never change, that is why the attendance is so low at most Divisional races and National Opens; only the "hardcore" fan attends a Divisional event or a National Open, and "hardcore" fans are definitely the minority. Bill Seabrooks - superfan1