Stock or Super Stock

[JimNolan]

Fellows,
I've got a question about which way I should go with a car that I just purchased. I bought a 1963 Z code (390) Galaxie XL that is completely bone stock with the original engine and automatic transmission. I'm going to fix it up for drag racing as I've already got a 57 Fairlane cruiser for show and go.
Should I build the car to keep it in the Stock class or should I build it for the Super Stock class. From what I've been able to read you almost need the window sticker to run in the stock class. Where as you can modifiy the engine and chassis somewhat in the Super Stock class. Money is an object so I thought I'd ask you guys since you've already been there. Any responses will greatly be appreciated. Street racing and two or three bracket races is all I've done before. I rebuild all my old cars engines and have done some modification work before. Example: I'm running a 300 hp 390, TKO 600, 3.70 posi W/ disc brakes, frt and rear sway bars etc. in my 57 now and all the modifications and grunt work was done by me. Jim

[Jeff Lee]

Stock is not for the faint of heart, talent or money; super stock more so. To build a car that is fun to race looses all the charm when your the slow guy in the class.
I would suggest you restore the car and throw some performance up grades at it; maybe keep the general theme of Stock Eliminator with suspension and induction but not worry about the trick of the week stuff inside of the engine.

[Bill Harris]

Interesting combination. Assuming that is the 390 rated at 300HP it has an NHRA factored HP of 280 for stock and 300 for S/S. If it happens to be a 390/330HP then the NHRA factor is 330 for both stock and S/S. From the blueprint specs the only difference between the two is the camshaft which is a 0.408" lift on the 300HP and 0.465" on the 330HP. Otherwise they look identical, same compression (11.0:1) and same carb (a 1.12 venturi Autolite 4100).

The carb is going to be the biggest limitation. It is only about 535 CFM on a good day, and you have to use it in both stock and S/S.

The shipping weight on the 500 XL is 3924 lbs with an automatic. It's natural stock class is M/SA with the 300/280 factored engine so you could run L/SA, M/SA or N/SA by adding or subtracting weight. If it's the 330/330 it is a natural H/SA so you could run G/SA, H/SA or I/SA.

It would make no sense to run it as a 390/330 in super stock since you can use any cam you want so you would claim it as a 390/300 regardless of what it was originally. You would run in SS/KA, SS/LA or SS/MA by juggling the weight.

All of that changes a little if you were to use the Edelbrock aluminum heads which are approved for that engine. They carry an 8HP adder in stock and 5HP adder in S/S. From what I know about FEs, your better off with the OEM iron heads in most cases, especially in stock.

If you ran in H/SA with the 390/330 engine you would need to get the minimum weight 3865 lbs down the track in around 11.50 to stand a chance in a heads-up race. The index for H/SA is 12.45 so you have to at least go that quick. There are a lot of quick cars in G/H/I stock.

These days stockers are a long way from stock. You can't back-half the car but there are still a LOT of things you can do to the suspension, front and rear. Engines and transmissions have a lot of trick stuff (i.e. expensive). If you do S/S you can backhalf and put in a ladder bar or four-link and run up to 14.5" tires and everything is even more expensive..

Now, if I were you and had a crapload of money, I'd stick a 425HP 427 with two four BBL carbs in that thing along with a Jerico and run it in B or C stock. If you need to run an automatic you could do a 410HP 406 with three two-barrels and run C/SA or D/SA. Paint it to look like Barney Fife's police car and you would have a real show-stopper!

[JimNolan]

Jeff and Bill,
I'm on the wrong forum. I think I need to be on the Bracket Forum. You guys have scared me to death. I spent my life building airplanes and dabbling in cars. Dabbling doesn't look like it's going to cut it if I need to be competitive in class racing. Also my brain can only hold so much information. Any new information I get I've got to forget something I once knew to absorb the new information. I've already forgotten everything that happened to me before the age of 18.
Seriously, I'm going to fix this car up with a set of tires, some good stock heads, intake, headers and cam and a performance transmission along with a decent posi and traction bars and go bracket racing. THEN, if I do respectable times I'll rethink class. I looked at some of the NHRA records and it's amazing what you guys accomplish. Thanks for the information. Jim

[Mark Yacavone]

Jim , I don't know what part of the country you're in , but if you're Central or East Coast , how about Nostalgia Super Stock? All you need is an FE type engine and you could run off an 11.50 or 12.00 index.
That wouldn't even require a roll bar.
Do a search for Texas Outsiders Racing and Midwest Nostalgia Super Stock

[Alan Roehrich]

Jim, class racing is tough, but that is a lot of the allure of it. If it was easy, anyone could do it, and more people would. There's nothing wrong with NOT running in class racing, nor is there anything wrong with backing up to take another look. I hope your current plan works well for you and you come back and give class a try later.

My first advice to anyone considering Stock is that just because you have a particular car, or you love a particular car, that doesn't mean that is the car you should race in Stock. If you want to run Stock, you should do a lot of research until you find a combination that you can make competitive and that you like. If you happen to have one or truly love that car, then that's just icing on the cake.

[treessavoy]

Jim,

I think you'll be happier in brackets, but my advice would be Nostalgia Super Stock. It's a bunch of nice guys with cars just like your's.

JimR

[Dago Red]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Jim,

I think you'll be happier in brackets, but my advice would be Nostalgia Super Stock. It's a bunch of nice guys with cars just like your's.

JimR

Jim, JR and Mark beat me to it. I have an NSS car. Think of us as drag racing's version of the Civil War reanactors.

There are several associations around. As they used to ask in the seventies "what's your twenty, good buddy?"

[JimNolan]

Dago,
I'm located in North Central Indiana. I used to fly down to Ft. Worth to the Nascar Race every year. I've got to say you Nascar Fans are probably the cleanest, polite, friendly and most well behaved rednecks I've ever been around. I'm not saying you don't party, you just don't party at someone else's expense. You can't go to a race up here unless you get drowned in beer and a drunk spends the whole time aggrivating you and your wife during the race.
The reason I posted here was to get an idea of what to do with my car ( that's arriving today ). I don't want to change anything on the car that would disqualify me to race in anything but bracket. I can race my pickup in bracket, while it's fun, there's only pride in yourself, not your car. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. When I bought my 57 Fairlane for $4500 off ebay I didn't realize I would eventually sink 50K into it before I was happy with it. Soooo, pride must mean something to me.
I think I'll stick to stock as much as possible because it seems there's more accomplishment achieved in performing well with stock. It just looks like I might have choosen the wrong car to accomplish it in. Jim
PS BTW I'm a hillbilly, Ky bred.

[Scotty D]

hey jim if your a 4speed kind of guy you could put a 4speed in it and race with the umtr thats based out of ohio(cincinnati and cleveland)and its bracket racing and have 2 classes one being for street type cars.the only rules are no electronic driving devices and has to have 3 pedals and driver makes the gear changes.go to www.umtrdragrace.com and check out the website