For todays "Brain Fart"

Billy Nees · 01-05-2010, 08:51 AM

If NHRA can't or won't come up with a better way to enforce it's rules what can be done? The way I see it either we have to basically make Stock into a flat hood and 9" tire bracket eliminator without any class and the first 128 entries are the field or come up with some kind of a "claimer" rule where a #1 or top 10 qualifier or a class winner must offer his engine or heads or intake for sale at a set price to another racer in his eliminator.
I think this should make for a "lively" discussion! (and no math involved!)

Charley Downing · 01-05-2010, 09:15 AM

NO, end of story.

Alan Roehrich · 01-05-2010, 09:18 AM

If you are looking to a current sanctioning body to "save" Stock and Super Stock, it ain't happening.

Claimer rules won't work. The low buck guy gets his one good engine "claimed" for less than it cost him in parts. He can't come back. The high buck guy has his own good engine, and one or two more, in case one gets claimed, and the low buck guy's only good engine, and the high buck guy can outrun the rest, who can't afford to get into a "claiming war" with him. And you can't really write a set of rules that you can truly enforce well to keep the "claiming war" from happening. Even if you could, it only takes a few times of being "claimed" to put the low buck guys out. Way too much room to game the system in claimer rules.

If you're looking to "legislate" money out of racing, it ain't happening. Every where it has been tried, it fails. People with money usually win there, because they can pay more to have cheated up stuff well hidden.

"Turning back the clock", to the days when we had valve spring rules, duration rules, lifter rules, and all of that sounds nice, but it would be nearly impossible.

Going pure bracket with Stock and Super Stock will kill the classes dead.

Billy Nees · 01-05-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

If you are looking to a current sanctioning body to "save" Stock and Super Stock, it ain't happening.

I think you are right and I'm wondering what will eventually happen to us.

Claimer rules won't work. The low buck guy gets his one good engine "claimed" for less than it cost him in parts. He can't come back.

The only way I can see a "claimer" deal working would be to set such a low claimer price on the parts it becomes unprofitable for the "high dollar" guys to get crazy and "profitable" for the "little guys" to buy their stuff. I think in a short period of time it would get VERY competitive.

"Turning back the clock", to the days when we had valve spring rules, duration rules, lifter rules, and all of that sounds nice, but it would be nearly impossible.

That would be my choice but I think it is the least likely.

Going pure bracket with Stock and Super Stock will kill the classes dead.

Alan, we're already there! Sorry but guys like you and I just won't admit it!

Evan Smith · 01-05-2010, 09:53 AM

I think there are quite a few racers who know that NHRA does, in fact, still tech cars. Ask anyone who's been to the barn. Sure, there should be more teardown, and better yet, more aggressive inspection, but with a soft economy there are less tech men and women to do the work. I'm not defending NHRA, as I know there are shortcomings, but I chose to accept it and enjoy racing with my family and friends, which is why I go to the track.

Class racing is alive. There was plenty of racing and heads-up action last year and car counts are still up from decades ago. There are more Class run-offs than in year's past as well. I will take the Ken Miele approach on this. No one has to race, if it is not fun anymore don't do it. I do agree that there could be improvements, which is why I wanted to be a part of the SRAC, but even though things aren't perfect, I still enjoy racing. The rules, indexes and such might not suit everyone, but Class racing is far from dead.

I'm sure racing in the '70s was not what it was in the '60s and racing in the '80s was not what it was in the '70s and so on. In my 42 years I've leaned that nothing stays the same, everything changes and you can either roll with it and make the best of your situation or you can talk about what things used to be.

Billy Nees · 01-05-2010, 10:06 AM

Very well put, Evan! BUT evrybody on here admits that S/SS is "evolving" and I'm just wondering what we will "evolve" into.

Another Friendly Racer · 01-05-2010, 10:20 AM

I like the original idea. Why not allow us to port our heads? More than half the guys are doing it anyway. NHRA CAN NOT POLICE IT. Since it is already being done it wont be the "next step to superstock". Unfortunately, the fast guys who are porting will complain like crazy because they dont want to lose there edge.

01-05-2010, 09:15 AM	#2
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 760 Likes: 16 Liked 616 Times in 87 Posts	Re: For todays "Brain Fart" NO, end of story. __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK

01-05-2010, 09:18 AM	#3
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,066 Likes: 1,487 Liked 1,630 Times in 378 Posts	Re: For todays "Brain Fart" If you are looking to a current sanctioning body to "save" Stock and Super Stock, it ain't happening. Claimer rules won't work. The low buck guy gets his one good engine "claimed" for less than it cost him in parts. He can't come back. The high buck guy has his own good engine, and one or two more, in case one gets claimed, and the low buck guy's only good engine, and the high buck guy can outrun the rest, who can't afford to get into a "claiming war" with him. And you can't really write a set of rules that you can truly enforce well to keep the "claiming war" from happening. Even if you could, it only takes a few times of being "claimed" to put the low buck guys out. Way too much room to game the system in claimer rules. If you're looking to "legislate" money out of racing, it ain't happening. Every where it has been tried, it fails. People with money usually win there, because they can pay more to have cheated up stuff well hidden. "Turning back the clock", to the days when we had valve spring rules, duration rules, lifter rules, and all of that sounds nice, but it would be nearly impossible. Going pure bracket with Stock and Super Stock will kill the classes dead. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

01-05-2010, 09:53 AM	#5
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: For todays "Brain Fart" I think there are quite a few racers who know that NHRA does, in fact, still tech cars. Ask anyone who's been to the barn. Sure, there should be more teardown, and better yet, more aggressive inspection, but with a soft economy there are less tech men and women to do the work. I'm not defending NHRA, as I know there are shortcomings, but I chose to accept it and enjoy racing with my family and friends, which is why I go to the track. Class racing is alive. There was plenty of racing and heads-up action last year and car counts are still up from decades ago. There are more Class run-offs than in year's past as well. I will take the Ken Miele approach on this. No one has to race, if it is not fun anymore don't do it. I do agree that there could be improvements, which is why I wanted to be a part of the SRAC, but even though things aren't perfect, I still enjoy racing. The rules, indexes and such might not suit everyone, but Class racing is far from dead. I'm sure racing in the '70s was not what it was in the '60s and racing in the '80s was not what it was in the '70s and so on. In my 42 years I've leaned that nothing stays the same, everything changes and you can either roll with it and make the best of your situation or you can talk about what things used to be. __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

01-05-2010, 10:06 AM	#6
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,473 Likes: 3,564 Liked 7,594 Times in 1,718 Posts	Re: For todays "Brain Fart" Very well put, Evan! BUT evrybody on here admits that S/SS is "evolving" and I'm just wondering what we will "evolve" into. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm OK..........it's everybody else. Last edited by Billy Nees; 01-05-2010 at 10:09 AM.

01-05-2010, 10:20 AM	#7
Another Friendly Racer Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 152 Likes: 0 Liked 19 Times in 6 Posts	Re: For todays "Brain Fart" I like the original idea. Why not allow us to port our heads? More than half the guys are doing it anyway. NHRA CAN NOT POLICE IT. Since it is already being done it wont be the "next step to superstock". Unfortunately, the fast guys who are porting will complain like crazy because they dont want to lose there edge.

01-05-2010, 08:51 AM	#1
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,473 Likes: 3,564 Liked 7,594 Times in 1,718 Posts	For todays "Brain Fart" If NHRA can't or won't come up with a better way to enforce it's rules what can be done? The way I see it either we have to basically make Stock into a flat hood and 9" tire bracket eliminator without any class and the first 128 entries are the field or come up with some kind of a "claimer" rule where a #1 or top 10 qualifier or a class winner must offer his engine or heads or intake for sale at a set price to another racer in his eliminator. I think this should make for a "lively" discussion! (and no math involved!) __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm OK..........it's everybody else.