Support your local Combo/Association races!!

[Mike Carr]

The reason that, more often than not, that the smaller Combo and Association races do not succeed, is that, often there are too many 'Wally Chasers", and not enough drag racers.

People complain, weekly/daily on here, about how they are treated at NHRA and IHRA races. Sitting there for three days, making two runs hours apart (if you get to run at ALL that day) for one race, paying $150-$300+ entry to race, getting parked in the bad sections of the pits, getting shuffled around during the weekend racing schedule, at times being forced to run on sub-standard tracks at odd hours of the weekend, and having all the motel, gas, etc expenses. And for what? Winning a Wally? I have three Wally's. And they take up the same space and collect the same dust as my local bracket racing trophies that I paid $20 to enter and maybe won, at most, $40 prize money.

Yet, when good-deal races come along, races that have a much lower entry fee, pay as well or BETTER than the big races, require 1/2 to 1/4 the time away, less than HALF the expense in towing, gas, motels, etc, the racers are nowhere to be found. Because they are too caught up in Wally-chasing. I guess the chance at winning a trophy at a big race will lead racers to spend absurd amounts of money chasing them.

Next season (2012) will likely be the last season for our local S/SS Association, UNLESS things improve. For years (since 1999), I've beat my head against a wall to provide racers places to race, at my own expense of time and money. One day meets, $100 entry, that can pay $1,000 to win or more with a good car count. Other than the annual Hagerstown November race, we get 12-17 cars per race. Usually pays $600-900 win, and 300-400 r/u. Last year was a perfect example. We had a race on Memorial Day weekend at Quaker City in Ohio. We had about 16 cars there. But about that same number (12-15 or so) local racers opted to travel 250 miles to Maple Grove, spending all the money on fuel, tolls, motel and entry, rather than travel 50 miles for a one day race that would have paid more (23 cars guarantee's $1,000 to win/500 r/u in my races) than what they would have won at the Grove (minus sticker money they might have had coming, IF they got paid it at all) and had probably 1/4 of the total expenses.

Point is, the writing is, and has been, on the wall. NHRA doesn't really want us at the races, and all the things they have changed over the past 10-15 years have shown that. Yet racers STILL flock to these events like they are Woodstock or something. It's time for racers to step up and support their local Association races (S/SS Assn's, the .90 series', and the bigger money races like VanPoppel/Zane, Rob Keister, etc have tried). In the future, they might be all we have left for us. If they are not supported NOW, they will go away. And then you'll be stuck with ONLY getting to run the big xHRA races. And if (when?) the xHRA's decide to do away with S/SS racing, and/or Sportsman racing in general, what are you going to have left? Other than an over-priced local bracket car that doesn't fit anything but Super Pro or Pro.

So what's it going to be, racers? Are you going to step up and support the people/series who support you? Or are you going to continue to lay out $500-1,000 per weekend trying to chase a Wally?

[Ross Family Racing]

Mike ,
I know what you mean.Our Buckeye S/SS races have experienced the same problem to a degree. I know many racers have parked their cars because of the economy but you would think many of those guys would dust them off and race the combo races.We have a core group of racers that are at almost every race, and others that race when they feel like it. That's OK , but when it is not feasable to run these races they will wish the Combo races were still here.
I also think the other S/SS series are experiencing some of the same problems.Some are allowing the NMCA Nostalgia S/SS cars to run with them( we've been doing this since the Buckeye S/SS started) to help with car counts. Think about that Mike,that may help out some.
These are some of the most fun races that a racer can run and not invest a lot of time into.
Jeff Ross

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Hi guys. I want to thank you both for the continued effort giving us good races and a option to race somewhere other than Divisional /National events. I have talked to Mike a little on this subject, and this is only mine ( and my brothers) opinion.But, I think MANY Class racers are not interested in Bracket racing. Traditionally,the only fast guys that will come are ones that have something to test. So they come to use your race as a "test session". And it makes sense really....If I have a REALLY fast car, I'm not interested in getting my butt kicked buy someone in my own class with shoe polish.Or for that matter, not being allowed to show up and deliberately put their car in MY class trying to get me in a heads up. All that strategy is gone. Even if it is only remotely possible,class racers want to race heads-up, given the opportunity.. And be feared for their accomplishments.Shoe polish eliminates all that......All you have to do is have scales, you could skip the fuel check. Let people run any fuel they want. I do not think anyone is going to go buy ultra expensive fuel for a Stock/Superstock Combo.If they do, cross that bridge when you get to it. We would probably SMELL any funny gas,so everybody would know what their up to.For that matter, just weight for heads up runs only. As far as tech,we are pretty good at policing ourselves on the bolt on stuff that is visible to the eye without teardown. Nobody wants to be toredown at a combo race, as they are suppose to be fun and kind of a kicked back type of deal. But alot of people think heads- up is Very fun..........Like I said, just my opinion

[Gary Smith]

Originally Posted by Jeff Niceswanger

Hi guys. I want to thank you both for the continued effort giving us good races and a option to race somewhere other than Divisional /National events. I have talked to Mike a little on this subject, and this is only mine ( and my brothers) opinion.But, I think MANY Class racers are not interested in Bracket racing. Traditionally,the only fast guys that will come are ones that have something to test. So they come to use your race as a "test session". And it makes sense really....If I have a REALLY fast car, I'm not interested in getting my butt kicked buy someone in my own class with shoe polish.Or for that matter, not being allowed to show up and deliberately put their car in MY class trying to get me in a heads up. All that strategy is gone. Even if it is only remotely possible,class racers want to race heads-up, given the opportunity.. And be feared for their accomplishments.Shoe polish eliminates all that......All you have to do is have scales, you could skip the fuel check. Let people run any fuel they want. I do not think anyone is going to go buy ultra expensive fuel for a Stock/Superstock Combo.If they do, cross that bridge when you get to it. We would probably SMELL any funny gas,so everybody would know what their up to.For that matter, just weight for heads up runs only. As far as tech,we are pretty good at policing ourselves on the bolt on stuff that is visible to the eye without teardown. Nobody wants to be toredown at a combo race, as they are suppose to be fun and kind of a kicked back type of deal. But alot of people think heads- up is Very fun..........Like I said, just my opinion

I brought heads-up eliminators as an added bonus for Southern Stock S/S Association...first as "gentleman" racing, or gamblers style. 2 or more cars in the same class go head to head & a racer can decide to teardown to prove his point. Sort of old school. Then let the shoe polish racing begin for those into it. Bottom line to every class racer out there....the writing is DEFINITELY on the wall. I've stepped away and returned various times to witness NHRA S/SS racing over the last 34 years. Although it's progressively gone down hill during those years, it's taken a major nosedive in the last 7. Pomona was always a thrill, even as a spectator, to walk through the gates & see the sportsman pits with everyone warming up, making last minute changes before the first run. However this last Winters I was appalled almost to depression to see what is now the "15 minute scramble" for the first run just so the pros can take their time & run during premium slots, while the sportsman racers get brushed aside until the day is over. FOR WHAT?????? WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO PAY A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BE PRACTICALLY OUTCASTED FROM THE EVENT?????? At Association races YOU ARE THE SHOW. You get treated with respect and your fees are greatly appreciated, not to mention an actual return on expenses. And Hell, is the damned wally trophy patented? A win is a win!!!!!! I surrender my soapbox.

[Jim Woods]

Mike, I know exactly what you are saying, Even when assured a certain payout , some just will not come out and play. Everyone has their reasons . It seems the ones who complain the most rarely attend the races in the first place. I thinkif all the associations would get together and compare notes we may be able to help each other succeed. I agree with you , I have been saying the same thing for a while, soon there will be no place to hold a race because tracks will not see enough support from the racers to consider having a race.I commend all the associations and participants for keeping class racing alive at the local levels.

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Gary Smith

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO PAY A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BE PRACTICALLY OUTCASTED FROM THE EVENT?????? At Association races YOU ARE THE SHOW. You get treated with respect and your fees are greatly appreciated, not to mention an actual return on expenses. And Hell, is the damned wally trophy patented? A win is a win!!!!!! I surrender my soapbox.

Well,I have nothing against these association races,but I'll give a few reasons:

1) The track prep at National events is usually pretty good.Its not always perfect,but the NHRA Safety Safari generally does a great job.

2) The Contingency Sponsors pay pretty well for a National Event Win (Thanks to ALL of them!)

3) The Wally (especially the Pewter 60th anniversary Wally is pretty cool!)

4) The finals were broadcast on ESPN 2

5) Got lucky and made the cover of National Dragster!

[Jack Matyas]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

The reason that, more often than not, that the smaller Combo and Association races do not succeed, is that, often there are too many 'Wally Chasers", and not enough drag racers.

People complain, weekly/daily on here, about how they are treated at NHRA and IHRA races. Sitting there for three days, making two runs hours apart (if you get to run at ALL that day) for one race, paying $150-$300+ entry to race, getting parked in the bad sections of the pits, getting shuffled around during the weekend racing schedule, at times being forced to run on sub-standard tracks at odd hours of the weekend, and having all the motel, gas, etc expenses. And for what? Winning a Wally? I have three Wally's. And they take up the same space and collect the same dust as my local bracket racing trophies that I paid $20 to enter and maybe won, at most, $40 prize money.

Yet, when good-deal races come along, races that have a much lower entry fee, pay as well or BETTER than the big races, require 1/2 to 1/4 the time away, less than HALF the expense in towing, gas, motels, etc, the racers are nowhere to be found. Because they are too caught up in Wally-chasing. I guess the chance at winning a trophy at a big race will lead racers to spend absurd amounts of money chasing them.

Next season (2012) will likely be the last season for our local S/SS Association, UNLESS things improve. For years (since 1999), I've beat my head against a wall to provide racers places to race, at my own expense of time and money. One day meets, $100 entry, that can pay $1,000 to win or more with a good car count. Other than the annual Hagerstown November race, we get 12-17 cars per race. Usually pays $600-900 win, and 300-400 r/u. Last year was a perfect example. We had a race on Memorial Day weekend at Quaker City in Ohio. We had about 16 cars there. But about that same number (12-15 or so) local racers opted to travel 250 miles to Maple Grove, spending all the money on fuel, tolls, motel and entry, rather than travel 50 miles for a one day race that would have paid more (23 cars guarantee's $1,000 to win/500 r/u in my races) than what they would have won at the Grove (minus sticker money they might have had coming, IF they got paid it at all) and had probably 1/4 of the total expenses.

Point is, the writing is, and has been, on the wall. NHRA doesn't really want us at the races, and all the things they have changed over the past 10-15 years have shown that. Yet racers STILL flock to these events like they are Woodstock or something. It's time for racers to step up and support their local Association races (S/SS Assn's, the .90 series', and the bigger money races like VanPoppel/Zane, Rob Keister, etc have tried). In the future, they might be all we have left for us. If they are not supported NOW, they will go away. And then you'll be stuck with ONLY getting to run the big xHRA races. And if (when?) the xHRA's decide to do away with S/SS racing, and/or Sportsman racing in general, what are you going to have left? Other than an over-priced local bracket car that doesn't fit anything but Super Pro or Pro.

So what's it going to be, racers? Are you going to step up and support the people/series who support you? Or are you going to continue to lay out $500-1,000 per weekend trying to chase a Wally?

Mike - Sorry you feel that way ........why you ask ? I've got some of those Wally's you're talking about and let me tell you - most of them I feel like I earned ...and now cherish....not the ones that were given because of singles or freebies or whatever but the ones that were earned thru good old fashioned run it out the backdoor racing .

If all I wanted to do was to earn money I'd stay at work - why bother going to the track at all.

Maybe there is a reason your car count was down at other events you held --- but don't hold it against the diehards like myself or you'll end up with even smaller fields - people do remember ..................

BTW , Those three Wally's you have - you might as well put 'em on E-Bay as they don't have much meaning to you .

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Mike - Sorry you feel that way ........why you ask ? I've got some of those Wally's you're talking about and let me tell you - most of them I feel like I earned ...and now cherish....not the ones that were given because of singles or freebies or whatever but the ones that were earned thru good old fashioned run it out the backdoor racing .

If all I wanted to do was to earn money I'd stay at work - why bother going to the track at all.

Maybe there is a reason your car count was down at other events you held --- but don't hold it against the diehards like myself or you'll end up with even smaller fields - people do remember ..................

BTW , Those three Wally's you have - you might as well put 'em on E-Bay as they don't have much meaning to you .

But Jack, You love Wally World !
Mike 's post was primarily addressed to those who are always complaining about .
(and rightly so, in my opinion).
*** note; Jack has supported the independent events too. At least, ours.

We typically get 6-8 cars at our combos . It's just a segment of our total program, but the fans do love it ,as do the dedicated racers that we do get, each and every time
There are about 40 S/SS'ers in Az alone, so you tell me ???
Someday, I suppose when Wally World goes away, we'll see a bigger count.

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Mike - Sorry you feel that way ........why you ask ? I've got some of those Wally's you're talking about and let me tell you - most of them I feel like I earned ...and now cherish....not the ones that were given because of singles or freebies or whatever but the ones that were earned thru good old fashioned run it out the backdoor racing .

If all I wanted to do was to earn money I'd stay at work - why bother going to the track at all.

Maybe there is a reason your car count was down at other events you held --- but don't hold it against the diehards like myself or you'll end up with even smaller fields - people do remember ..................

BTW , Those three Wally's you have - you might as well put 'em on E-Bay as they don't have much meaning to you .

Jack, trust me, I wish I would have someone to race for those Wally's. I was very disapointed that three years in a row at Indy, the other dozen or so racers in the country in my classes were not there. Maybe they lacked the same confidence I had in myself and my (actualy Billy's) car. Shame on me. When a former S/S world champ asked my dad if I won class at Indy '02, Dad quoted me and said "Yeah, but he was disapointed that no one was there to run him, and said it sucked". The Champ said to my dad "That trophy doesn't say how many cars were there, it said you won Class".

As far as the other races, I truly have no idea why they are not supported. We get 40-45 cars every year in Hagerstown. 55 last year. 73 this year. Pittsburgh, Quaker City, Numida, Beaver Springs, Quarter Aces and other tracks? 17 or less every time. I already explained why the May Quaker City race was down last year--too many of my racers went to the Grove. Every year, this time of the year, I ask for input from racers as to what they want to see in our program. I get little to no feedback, and when I act on what I do receive, nothing changes, and most often, the racer(s) suggesting the changes still aren't there. Maybe if I had a nice trophy to offer...

Oh, and I don't have to worry about offending the "die-hards"--they don't come anyway.

Wally's ARE important, to a point I spent thousands of dollars to get them (figuring the costs to go to races to earn the necesary grade points). Indy was the only National I ever raced at, or ever wanted to race at. Too many years as a travelling semi-pro spectator, and seeing how some of the Nat'l events were run, turned me off. Of the three shelves of trophies I have, the three Indy trophies get the top shelf. However, I just don't see NHRA trophies/awards as the be-all, end-all that many other racers apparently do.

People (racers) just need to realize there ARE other, equally fun, equally well-paying, games in town. It's not just NHRA.

Like I said, in a few years, when there are no local series to compete in, and NHRA decides to get rid of us, there will be a lot of racers probably thinking to themselves "I wish we would have supported those other races more..."

[Mike Carr]

-Jeff N, heads-ups are something I would consider. Pittsburgh has no scales (for the IHRA Div'l races, they use the IHRA temporary scales 'weigh with the front tires, weigh with the back, and add it up' method), so there would be no heads-ups there at Pitt. Quaker and Hagerstown, assuming their scales are accurate and still work, we could work with.

I would have to pay (another expense) a qualified tech person (or at least knowledgeable person) to run the scales. Maybe not so much for the tradtional S/S and Stock cars. But for SS/GT, for example. Not saying you or anyone would do it. But let's say you're running your car, GT/FA 1975 400/180-328 (or whatever it's rated at now). And you claim it as such. But it actually has some other, higher-rated combo in it (427/425, 396/375, etc or something similar) and runs silly fast (same with a GT car with a 327/250 and claiming it as a 283/220) or fast enough to win a heads-up. The average Weekly Joe tech person won't know what combos can or can not fit whatever GT, SS/AM, or even some Stock classes. He certainly wouldn't know the difference between a SS/DA legal 427/425 and some guy that claims it, with an LS-6 454/450 in it.

Again, I don't know how many, if any, would try it, but it could certainly lend itself to MORE potential cheating, more than that could be done now.

As it is now, with no scales, heads-ups or qualifying, any edge gained by cheating is nullified. Going two seconds under would not gain any advantage to anything (no bye, no easy Class win). Other than Hagerstown, the only automatic SS/GT cars we had were all GT/HA or lower (except Gene McBean GT/BA), so I doubt you'd get a heads-up, even if we chose to scale and do them (unless you can get your car legally to H weight).

-Jeff R, Nostalgia/SS I have talked to our members about in the past. And it always meets a 98% (or more) resistance, since the N/SS have little to no rules, compared to legal class cars (as one former racer said, "why would you want to let older bracket cars in our race?"). And if I allow them, and we get five N/SS cars and lose 10 regular S/SS cars, I've gained nothing. Again, it's something I could consider, but we'd have to see what the members would want.