OK Jeff better late than never!

Billy Nees · 01-16-2018, 02:15 PM

Jeff Teuton;455700]Jason, the whole of Stock and Super Stock suffer from the 'allowables'. There are a million reasons why it happened over the last 60 years or so. Well maybe a few hundred anyway. Many things we take for granted today, were not allowed at some distant time. That would make for an interesting thing to create a post about what has changed in Stock and Super Stock since say 1955. Some of us were around. It might surprise everyone to see it in print, especially in this slow time of year.

So I'm 3+ years too late. It's winter, it's cold and snowing on the mountain. Let's see what you've all got.

JIM MARSHALL · 01-16-2018, 02:44 PM

Billy, just use the NHRA 1975 rule book and enforce it for stock eliminator and I would be a "Happy Camper "! .... If you choose a fragile combo your problem.... You know the rules going in!

Travis Miller · 01-16-2018, 09:33 PM

Since we are going back to 1955, let's take time to review the Dec. 1955 Hot Rod Magazine editorial by Wally Parks following the first NHRA National event held at Great Bend Kansas.

"A lot of fellows who participated in the recent National Championship Drag Races at Great Bend, Kansas, were a bit shaken up at the thoroughness with which NHRA officials conducted the pre-race technical inspections. Crew members who were charged with responsibility for maintaining safety of contestant equipment were trained at their jobs and handled the details with conscientious sincerity. It wasn't that they were trying to find fault with a participant's car; they simply followed the rules as they were meant to be followed. Naturally, a lot of last minutes repairs and alterations had to be made, some of which cost the entrants valuable time. Most complaints were, "We've been running this way at our strip all along and have had no trouble before!", which simply pointed out that a lot of strips have been far too lax in their enforcement of universally accepted safety regulations governing drag strip operations.
But after the meet was ended, members of the hard-working NHRA technical committee became heroes in the eyes of many participants. They exerted the same honest concern in verifying the legality of class winners as they had in searching for potential danger points in the earlier inspections.
As winners were determined, during the class eliminations, an assigned official would escort each winning car (that) was held pending a tear-down inspections of its engine. Engines were torn all the way down in real expose.
To say that some owners of stock cars in the National Drags were startled would be the understatement of the meet-they were shook! And why not? In one Stock class the first, second and third place cars proved to be running out of class, having modifications or special equipment that were definitely not permissible.
As a result, no records were established in either "A," "B," "C," or "D" Stock classes at Great Bend. Only two eliminators, "B" and "D" classes, were determined legal upon inspections.
What's to come of all this dishonesty? Well, there are several possible solutions. One is to discontinue the running of Stock classes, but this isn't practical. Another might be to run Stocks for "time only," giving no awards to winners. Last, but not least, would be to change class restrictions to simply require "no visible modifications," leaving hidden parts wide open to alteration.
Whatever is done, a lot of honest people will take the rap for offenses committed by a few would-be "hot dogs" who haven't enough confidence in their own engine refinements to declare them properly.
As always, we welcome our readers' reactions and suggestions.-WP"

Larry Hill · 01-16-2018, 09:38 PM

Thanks Travis

Jeff Teuton · 01-16-2018, 09:44 PM

OK, you got me. Who is Jason? What is that number? It's not my fault!!! I didn't do it!!!! It was an accident!!!! Help me please...

Ed Wright · 01-16-2018, 10:03 PM

We all know you did it Jeff.

Svendsen · 01-18-2018, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

OK, you got me. Who is Jason? What is that number? It's not my fault!!! I didn't do it!!!! It was an accident!!!! Help me please...

I believe he is referring to this previous thread:

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...owables&page=3

Timetraveler · 01-17-2018, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Miller

Since we are going back to 1955, let's take time to review the Dec. 1955 Hot Rod Magazine editorial by Wally Parks following the first NHRA National event held at Great Bend Kansas.

"A lot of fellows who participated in the recent National Championship Drag Races at Great Bend, Kansas, were a bit shaken up at the thoroughness with which NHRA officials conducted the pre-race technical inspections. Crew members who were charged with responsibility for maintaining safety of contestant equipment were trained at their jobs and handled the details with conscientious sincerity. It wasn't that they were trying to find fault with a participant's car; they simply followed the rules as they were meant to be followed. Naturally, a lot of last minutes repairs and alterations had to be made, some of which cost the entrants valuable time. Most complaints were, "We've been running this way at our strip all along and have had no trouble before!", which simply pointed out that a lot of strips have been far too lax in their enforcement of universally accepted safety regulations governing drag strip operations.
But after the meet was ended, members of the hard-working NHRA technical committee became heroes in the eyes of many participants. They exerted the same honest concern in verifying the legality of class winners as they had in searching for potential danger points in the earlier inspections.
As winners were determined, during the class eliminations, an assigned official would escort each winning car (that) was held pending a tear-down inspections of its engine. Engines were torn all the way down in real expose.
To say that some owners of stock cars in the National Drags were startled would be the understatement of the meet-they were shook! And why not? In one Stock class the first, second and third place cars proved to be running out of class, having modifications or special equipment that were definitely not permissible.
As a result, no records were established in either "A," "B," "C," or "D" Stock classes at Great Bend. Only two eliminators, "B" and "D" classes, were determined legal upon inspections.
What's to come of all this dishonesty? Well, there are several possible solutions. One is to discontinue the running of Stock classes, but this isn't practical. Another might be to run Stocks for "time only," giving no awards to winners. Last, but not least, would be to change class restrictions to simply require "no visible modifications," leaving hidden parts wide open to alteration.
Whatever is done, a lot of honest people will take the rap for offenses committed by a few would-be "hot dogs" who haven't enough confidence in their own engine refinements to declare them properly.
As always, we welcome our readers' reactions and suggestions.-WP"

Travis remember that the rule book was written by NHRA as a reaction to the racers more than an action. If it's not against the rules then it's legal.

Ed Wright · 01-17-2018, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timetraveler

Travis remember that the rule book was written by NHRA as a reaction to the racers more than an action. If it's not against the rules then it's legal.

When I started, I was told by the track's head tech guy. If the rule book does not say you can do it, you can not.

GTS340 · 01-17-2018, 04:24 PM

Very well said Mr. Miller.

I remember when I started racing stock in 1978. We had stock water pumps, stock rockers that we would put push rods through, Roades lifters to get some bottom end. Original transmissions, original brakes that took both feet to stop. My first Ritter and Weber engine dyno tested cost 2500.00.
When Super Stock was at a National event. The, what I called the tender fender cars were lined up for a great show in the pits alone. Most cars came to the track on open trailers. You would stop at a gas station and people would ask you where your headed, how fast and tell you "I had one". Things have changed a country mile but still enjoy trying to beat the fast guy in class and surely the cars in original trim.

01-16-2018, 02:15 PM	#1
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,487 Likes: 3,587 Liked 7,685 Times in 1,732 Posts	OK Jeff better late than never! Jeff Teuton;455700]Jason, the whole of Stock and Super Stock suffer from the 'allowables'. There are a million reasons why it happened over the last 60 years or so. Well maybe a few hundred anyway. Many things we take for granted today, were not allowed at some distant time. That would make for an interesting thing to create a post about what has changed in Stock and Super Stock since say 1955. Some of us were around. It might surprise everyone to see it in print, especially in this slow time of year. So I'm 3+ years too late. It's winter, it's cold and snowing on the mountain. Let's see what you've all got. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

01-16-2018, 02:44 PM	#2
JIM MARSHALL Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Indian Land SC Posts: 122 Likes: 247 Liked 337 Times in 46 Posts	Re: OK Jeff better late than never! Billy, just use the NHRA 1975 rule book and enforce it for stock eliminator and I would be a "Happy Camper "! .... If you choose a fragile combo your problem.... You know the rules going in! __________________ Jim Marshall 1967 STK

01-16-2018, 09:33 PM	#3
Travis Miller Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 478 Likes: 1 Liked 276 Times in 27 Posts	Re: OK Jeff better late than never! Since we are going back to 1955, let's take time to review the Dec. 1955 Hot Rod Magazine editorial by Wally Parks following the first NHRA National event held at Great Bend Kansas. "A lot of fellows who participated in the recent National Championship Drag Races at Great Bend, Kansas, were a bit shaken up at the thoroughness with which NHRA officials conducted the pre-race technical inspections. Crew members who were charged with responsibility for maintaining safety of contestant equipment were trained at their jobs and handled the details with conscientious sincerity. It wasn't that they were trying to find fault with a participant's car; they simply followed the rules as they were meant to be followed. Naturally, a lot of last minutes repairs and alterations had to be made, some of which cost the entrants valuable time. Most complaints were, "We've been running this way at our strip all along and have had no trouble before!", which simply pointed out that a lot of strips have been far too lax in their enforcement of universally accepted safety regulations governing drag strip operations. But after the meet was ended, members of the hard-working NHRA technical committee became heroes in the eyes of many participants. They exerted the same honest concern in verifying the legality of class winners as they had in searching for potential danger points in the earlier inspections. As winners were determined, during the class eliminations, an assigned official would escort each winning car (that) was held pending a tear-down inspections of its engine. Engines were torn all the way down in real expose. To say that some owners of stock cars in the National Drags were startled would be the understatement of the meet-they were shook! And why not? In one Stock class the first, second and third place cars proved to be running out of class, having modifications or special equipment that were definitely not permissible. As a result, no records were established in either "A," "B," "C," or "D" Stock classes at Great Bend. Only two eliminators, "B" and "D" classes, were determined legal upon inspections. What's to come of all this dishonesty? Well, there are several possible solutions. One is to discontinue the running of Stock classes, but this isn't practical. Another might be to run Stocks for "time only," giving no awards to winners. Last, but not least, would be to change class restrictions to simply require "no visible modifications," leaving hidden parts wide open to alteration. Whatever is done, a lot of honest people will take the rap for offenses committed by a few would-be "hot dogs" who haven't enough confidence in their own engine refinements to declare them properly. As always, we welcome our readers' reactions and suggestions.-WP" Last edited by Travis Miller; 01-16-2018 at 09:38 PM.

01-16-2018, 09:38 PM	#4
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,630 Likes: 1,923 Liked 10,683 Times in 2,223 Posts	Re: OK Jeff better late than never! Thanks Travis __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

01-16-2018, 09:44 PM	#5
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: OK Jeff better late than never! OK, you got me. Who is Jason? What is that number? It's not my fault!!! I didn't do it!!!! It was an accident!!!! Help me please... __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

01-16-2018, 10:03 PM	#6
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: OK Jeff better late than never! We all know you did it Jeff. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

01-17-2018, 04:24 PM	#10
GTS340 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Las Vegas, Nv Posts: 866 Likes: 269 Liked 1,340 Times in 407 Posts	Re: OK Jeff better late than never! Very well said Mr. Miller. I remember when I started racing stock in 1978. We had stock water pumps, stock rockers that we would put push rods through, Roades lifters to get some bottom end. Original transmissions, original brakes that took both feet to stop. My first Ritter and Weber engine dyno tested cost 2500.00. When Super Stock was at a National event. The, what I called the tender fender cars were lined up for a great show in the pits alone. Most cars came to the track on open trailers. You would stop at a gas station and people would ask you where your headed, how fast and tell you "I had one". Things have changed a country mile but still enjoy trying to beat the fast guy in class and surely the cars in original trim.