A/SA First in the 9.80's

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Changing the character of Stock, so that it becomes "working on computers, blowers, and turbos" doesn't "save" Stock. It makes Stock into something else entirely.
.

No matter how new, I am a fan of Logic, and logic in this case at least of the first part of the statment eludes me,

"working on computers"

?!?!?! Im sorry and I dont mean this in a nasty way, but one of incredulous wonder, but are you serious ?

What you can change your timing I cant ?
You can rejet your carb but I cant alter my fuel ?
What because it only takes me a click of a button to do those 2 things it "too easy ?"
You can change your valve body but I cant change my shifts ?
You can set your "seperate" rev limiter or change "chips" but because mine is all in 1 box I can now adjust with my laptop "it shouldnt count" ?

The other 2 parts of the statement, well I really dont have an opinion on, and maybe you meant the first nothing, nothing whatsoever like I took it.

Funny thing about "Progress" and Im still a fan of doing things the old way.

True story, when I was young, about 6 my Dad bought a very new Gold very very expensive Digital Wrist Watch in about 76. We went to my Grandfathers his dads he was so proud of this item. My grandfather his dad was a Watchmaker, not a watch repairman a watch maker, and a very pragmatic man. My dad said "Pop look at this ! Leaned over the kitchen table and pressed the button that lit up the little red numerals.....My grandfather shook his head and when my dad asked whats wrong ? My grandfather asked my dad "How can you call that progress, when now it takes 2 hands to tell time ?" I never saw my father wear that watch again, but I have seen it in his Jewlry valet sitting there its and my whole life.

Sometimes progress is a step backwards, for a moment......then the leap and surge forward is quantum enough that it either leave some behind or they adapt.

Automotive technology is like that now, again.

I lived with my grandfather and grandmother for a couple years in High school and my Grandfather taught me much (about everything but watches as well) and when I saw him wearing a Seiko I asked Grandpa ! He shrugged and said its durable , cheap and it keeps perfect time. He wore it till he died. Sometimes when you cant beat em ?..............

[SS Engine Guy]

Originally Posted by drooze

Sometimes when you cant beat em ?..............

Cheat em'? With a bogus hp rating?

Chris, I just finished your sentence my way instead of the way you probably intended. My statement is not aimed at you or anyone else running one of the new combos. And I know that you have stated before that they are soft. Best of luck to you in your racing.

Now the reason I worded it differently than Chris is I don't care how you painted it "Cheated" is just what happened when these numbers were assigned. Not technology nor evolution. Dave you very likely would have won a race if you hadn't been "Cheated". Not by the driver, owner, etc of the car you ran heads up but by whom ever dreamed up the ratings. No different than if someone had assigned numbers to a pro stock car that caused it to fall into the same class as you.

While I am typing does anyone know what or who benifited by the minus 3 tenths yet?

[bsa633]

This talk about "New Technology" ,and you just have to "suck it up" really gets to me..
ofcourse they have a better design but thats not why they are fast out of the box,this example was under another thread..


Let's compare shall we?

'79 360
9:1 CR
.455" lift
Flat tappet hydraulic lifter
Thermoquad
Cast Iron heads/manifold
1.88" intake valve 1.60" exhaust valve
Rated @ 289

5.9 Magnum
11.4:1 CR
.490" lift
Hydraulic roller lifter
1000 cfm throttle body w/injection
Aluminum heads/high rise aluminum manifold
2.02" intake valve 1.60" exhaust valve
Rated @ 275

[Alan Roehrich]

Drooze, the quote "working on computers, blowers, and turbos" was from someone else's post.

I never said that EFI cars should not be able to adjust their timing or fuel curves. I don't think anyone with a "traditional" Stock Eliminator car has said it either.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by bsa633

'79 360
9:1 CR
.455" lift
Flat tappet hydraulic lifter
Thermoquad
Cast Iron heads/manifold
1.88" intake valve 1.60" exhaust valve
Rated @ 289

Rated at 289 HP from the factory in 1979?

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Drooze, the quote "working on computers, blowers, and turbos" was from someone else's post.

I never said that EFI cars should not be able to adjust their timing or fuel curves. I don't think anyone with a "traditional" Stock Eliminator car has said it either.

Understood, and I didnt see the other post, thats why I asked.

Im sure you understand how, and I tried to make it clear I was also asking if that what you meant, Im sure you could see how that to me and many (the first part of that statment) would be incredible.

Thanks for the clarification....I guess my post should have been directed to the first poster of that...lol..

Cheers

Chris

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by bsa633

This talk about "New Technology" ,and you just have to "suck it up" really gets to me..
ofcourse they have a better design but thats not why they are fast out of the box,this example was under another thread..

But see ok....2 problems, first youre compaing ancient technology (the LA)

Second I didnt say and was not myself talking about the DP cars in specific I was talking in generalities.

Lets take the 3.6 Chevy Camaro.

I understand it isnt in the guides YET.....

3.6 Liters mind you. At 300 ADVERTISED HP....

direct injection
Cam phasing coupled (Variable Valve Timing)
Cast aluminum cylinder block and heads
Double overhead cams with four valves per cylinder
Cams driven by small-pitch, inverted tooth chain
Variable valve timing with four-cam phasing for precise intake and exhaust tuning and
11.3:1 compression ratio

Cast aluminum polymer coated oil cooled pistons, with a fully floating wristpin
Durable forged crankshaft, and precision sinter-forged connecting rods
Cast aluminum structural oil pan stiffens the cylinder block structure and reduces noise
Electronic throttle
Reliable coil-on-spark-plug ignition

THAT is the type of engine that is COMING, This is just the cusp.

What I am talking about is in 5 years when these engines are the norm for the big 3.....then what will the complaint be fro LA, SBC and SBF guys ?

That 3.6 is rated at 300 HP ?~? Now that seems like an AWFUL Fair HP assignment Right ? Well the engine is good for 5 if done right....yep....so Soft factor ?

The 5.7 Hemi OVER The COUNTER Piece this year has Higher Compression and VVT but Im not whining we cant use it.(or maybe just maybe we can ?, nothing in the rules says I cant......hmmmm)

This year there is a REAL Good Chance Chrysler will release the 6.4 (392) with MDS, OVER IN Trucks, next in Cars......then what ? Its too much ? They are ABLE to do it and get the emissions BECAUSE of the Technology, That 6.4 will put out MORE Power and get better mileage than the 6.1 in our 2008 Challenger SRT8......

When I spoke of Technology I wasnt talking about the DP and CJ cars and their factors, as others have pointed out they are SOFT, I will agree. 305 HP for a 5.7 Come on......

We ordered the car BEFORE it was Factored....yes before....It would have mattered one rats *** less to US if it was factored to be uncompetitive from the start. THAT is a Fact.

Now that we have it, and now that the factors are soft, what are we to do ? Sit on it ? Petition the NHRA for Higher HP ? None of those are even realistic.

SO What do WE Plan to do with it ? Well run it tongue hanging out all the way factors be dammed. Thats US Im sure (and some have said) that we are dumb, please dont, etc....but well....thats what We plan to do.

In the End DP #24 May be the other Class Racers best friend since we plan to wholly disregard the factors and March the 5.7 right up the ladder.

Frankly we see the 5.7 as a B car. It can run in F now....so what do we do ? Well.....We start in F running the piss out of it, HOPEFULLY Set a Record before any of the other 5.7 DP's can, March it to E do the same, lather rinse repeat as HP gets added. When and while we do it, we also make our "mark" Im not under any illusion we are going to have a hard time , but how sweet would it be to be the first F and E etc in the 9's ? And as we do, we remove ourselves from direct competion in those classes, so were gone. The record may take a while to reset but.....thats all.....Meanwhile the other 5.7 DP well....they wont be able to reset it, perhaps a Ford package will come along and do it , but well be first.

Cheers

Chris

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by GUMP

Rated at 289 HP from the factory in 1979?

Certainly not but then there was a system that "sort of" took care of it,not so anymore..but perhaps since most new cars have "made up" figures or lower than factory ratings we could drop all others back to the rating they had from start to..that would be a start!

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by bsa633

Certainly not but then there was a system that "sort of" took care of it,not so anymore..but perhaps since most new cars have "made up" figures or lower than factory ratings we could drop all others back to the rating they had from start to..that would be a start!

That combination and a lot of others have had their day in the sun. That would include my current LT1 Formula.

[Ken Keir]

Originally Posted by Dave Ficacci

---

Dave I agree with you completely. Adam loves stock and superstock racing but most of all he likes heads up class racing. We are working to make our car faster but adam also knows that we are way behind the new cars. When we race a car heads up we would like to think that we have a fare chance.

Ken Keir
A/SA 1470