30 years ago at Indy - Page 3

ss3011 · 08-15-2010, 11:17 PM

I thought we all teched at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway ? I liked that, because after you could tour the Museum !

Mark Yacavone · 08-16-2010, 12:14 AM

Just so we don't forget, NHRA replaced this with throttle stopped bracket cars..

Jeff Lee · 08-16-2010, 12:18 AM

From the article:
Those such as Gillig admitted that the local Modified participation had dwindled as the NHRA had alleged. Even he could see that there were fewer places to run Modified at the end than there had been when he started.

“Most of the tracks had switched over to bracket racing,” Gillig explained. “Those guys at the local tracks were itching to run national events. They were always quick to say ‘beat me and not my wallet.' The bottom line is that half of those guys couldn't shift a stick and they drove like little old ladies. That slowed them down. They went to automatics. We just didn't want to go to that.”

Sound familiar...today?

PONTIAC'S REVENGE · 08-17-2010, 08:51 PM

Alan,

Didnt know that about the small engines. I did know that Adger had an engine and combo that was completely eliminated. It is why Adger ran IHRA for years, but then receiving the similar fate.

What most people ignor is that it was predominantly an OEM headed class with larger cubic inches. When NHRA allowed the splayed valve heads it allowed small bore engines to be way more competitive. It is now virtually an aluminum small block class. As you increase in cubic inches the linear weight per cubic inch becomes a negative return.

In 2002 I started building a Wenzler headed Pontiac motor with cylinder head development going pretty well. We had 430cfm from a 2.3 valve going next to a 2.4 intake valve with some valve spacing arrangements. Our short block was a 4.35 bore coming out to about 400 inches with a short deck and flat top pistons. However...NHRA decided to add the part number rule to lock us all out once again.

Lynn McCarty

Alan Roehrich · 08-17-2010, 11:24 PM

They outright killed H/MP, it didn't go to Super Stock or Comp, it was just gone. Cotton said he couldn't move up, and the engine couldn't get enough bigger, or the car enough lighter. He eventually ran an econo dragster for a while. But nothing ever as successful as the Pocket Rocket. We flogged stuff for a short while in C/MP, but it just wasn't working, so it evolved into a bracket and Super Gas car. We ended up with two S/G cars and a S/C dragster, and by 91 or so I was so sick of electronics I quit. I only went to the track with guys I did work for until 95 or so and then even quit that.

SSDiv6 · 08-18-2010, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

They outright killed H/MP, it didn't go to Super Stock or Comp, it was just gone. Cotton said he couldn't move up, and the engine couldn't get enough bigger, or the car enough lighter. He eventually ran an econo dragster for a while. But nothing ever as successful as the Pocket Rocket. We flogged stuff for a short while in C/MP, but it just wasn't working, so it evolved into a bracket and Super Gas car. We ended up with two S/G cars and a S/C dragster, and by 91 or so I was so sick of electronics I quit. I only went to the track with guys I did work for until 95 or so and then even quit that.

I have always believed that sponsor pressure on NHRA due to the small cars and oddball combinations that were winning the races and championships, caused the demise of the class.

I can recall some manufacturers complaining to NHRA about cars such as Cotton Perry's Chevy, Buddy Ingersol's Turbo Pinto, Samurai Warrior Mazda, Gene Berg's VW, Bruce Sizemore 6-Cyl. Pinto and many other cars in the class. Their complaint was that these cars did not run off-the-shelf parts and they were getting paid contingency money. Nevertheless, the spectators loved to see these oddball cars and hear their high winding engines.

FED 387 · 08-18-2010, 09:47 AM

The reason NHRA CHOSE to discontinue Modified eliminator was because of Super Gas plain and simple--In 1978 or 79 at the Winternationals they "showcased" a popular style of racing on the West Coast which was Super Gas or whatever they called it then/there. Lots of the local people in attendence at the track and NHRA saw an opportunity to rake in lotsa $$$$ without any work or very MINIMAL tech inspections on their part--- Ya got a helemt? seat belt? roll bar? your OK gimme a hundred bucks and go race.
If somebody walked up and offered NHRA (being the whores that they are) a half million bucks or more to run an eliminator that we will call Pro golf cart, guess what folks they would all of a sudden jump from being an Exhibition class OVERNIGHT to a full fledged Eliminator just like PRO MOD did. It's all about the money with these guys (current mgmt) and has nothing to do with NHRA is/was originally about !!! Comp 387

Ed Fernandez · 08-18-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FED 387

The reason NHRA CHOSE to discontinue Modified eliminator was because of Super Gas plain and simple--In 1978 or 79 at the Winternationals they "showcased" a popular style of racing on the West Coast which was Super Gas or whatever they called it then/there. Lots of the local people in attendence at the track and NHRA saw an opportunity to rake in lotsa $$$$ without any work or very MINIMAL tech inspections on their part--- Ya got a helemt? seat belt? roll bar? your OK gimme a hundred bucks and go race.
If somebody walked up and offered NHRA (being the whores that they are) a half million bucks or more to run an eliminator that we will call Pro golf cart, guess what folks they would all of a sudden jump from being an Exhibition class OVERNIGHT to a full fledged Eliminator just like PRO MOD did. It's all about the money with these guys (current mgmt) and has nothing to do with NHRA is/was originally about !!! Comp 387

S/G started out as Pro/ Gas.

FED 387 · 08-18-2010, 10:37 AM

SS Div 6 ----I beg to differ with you, the cars that you cited DID in fact run a lot of the same off the shelf parts as a "normal" SBC did---Rings/bearings/ spark plugs/carbs /clutches/tires/ ignitions /gaskets-etc were all currently manufactured and sold over the counter to VW /Mazda/Pinto etc guys!!! The problem IS/WAS NHRA squeezing and demanding MORE money for display areas on the Midways at national meets. Those companies that were there gave away and sold lots of merchandise... It was the charge($$$$$) for booth space as well as those unpaid contigency monies that NHRA POCKETED that escalated dramatically that had many manufacturers choosing to either not participate in the NHRA sponsorship program or on th Midway areas at National meets--Comp

08-15-2010, 11:17 PM	#21
ss3011 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 909 Likes: 70 Liked 239 Times in 114 Posts	Re: 30 years ago at Indy I thought we all teched at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway ? I liked that, because after you could tour the Museum !

08-16-2010, 12:14 AM	#22
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,808 Likes: 2,899 Liked 5,109 Times in 1,947 Posts	Re: 30 years ago at Indy Just so we don't forget, NHRA replaced this with throttle stopped bracket cars.. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

08-16-2010, 12:18 AM	#23
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 30 years ago at Indy From the article: Those such as Gillig admitted that the local Modified participation had dwindled as the NHRA had alleged. Even he could see that there were fewer places to run Modified at the end than there had been when he started. “Most of the tracks had switched over to bracket racing,” Gillig explained. “Those guys at the local tracks were itching to run national events. They were always quick to say ‘beat me and not my wallet.' The bottom line is that half of those guys couldn't shift a stick and they drove like little old ladies. That slowed them down. They went to automatics. We just didn't want to go to that.” Sound familiar...today? __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

08-17-2010, 08:51 PM	#24
PONTIAC'S REVENGE Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: CARMEL, INDIANA Posts: 141 Likes: 69 Liked 48 Times in 18 Posts	Re: 30 years ago at Indy Alan, Didnt know that about the small engines. I did know that Adger had an engine and combo that was completely eliminated. It is why Adger ran IHRA for years, but then receiving the similar fate. What most people ignor is that it was predominantly an OEM headed class with larger cubic inches. When NHRA allowed the splayed valve heads it allowed small bore engines to be way more competitive. It is now virtually an aluminum small block class. As you increase in cubic inches the linear weight per cubic inch becomes a negative return. In 2002 I started building a Wenzler headed Pontiac motor with cylinder head development going pretty well. We had 430cfm from a 2.3 valve going next to a 2.4 intake valve with some valve spacing arrangements. Our short block was a 4.35 bore coming out to about 400 inches with a short deck and flat top pistons. However...NHRA decided to add the part number rule to lock us all out once again. Lynn McCarty

08-17-2010, 11:24 PM	#25
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,105 Likes: 1,561 Liked 1,788 Times in 408 Posts	Re: 30 years ago at Indy They outright killed H/MP, it didn't go to Super Stock or Comp, it was just gone. Cotton said he couldn't move up, and the engine couldn't get enough bigger, or the car enough lighter. He eventually ran an econo dragster for a while. But nothing ever as successful as the Pocket Rocket. We flogged stuff for a short while in C/MP, but it just wasn't working, so it evolved into a bracket and Super Gas car. We ended up with two S/G cars and a S/C dragster, and by 91 or so I was so sick of electronics I quit. I only went to the track with guys I did work for until 95 or so and then even quit that. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

08-18-2010, 09:47 AM	#27
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,416 Likes: 522 Liked 330 Times in 178 Posts	Re: 30 years ago at Indy The reason NHRA CHOSE to discontinue Modified eliminator was because of Super Gas plain and simple--In 1978 or 79 at the Winternationals they "showcased" a popular style of racing on the West Coast which was Super Gas or whatever they called it then/there. Lots of the local people in attendence at the track and NHRA saw an opportunity to rake in lotsa $$$$ without any work or very MINIMAL tech inspections on their part--- Ya got a helemt? seat belt? roll bar? your OK gimme a hundred bucks and go race. If somebody walked up and offered NHRA (being the whores that they are) a half million bucks or more to run an eliminator that we will call Pro golf cart, guess what folks they would all of a sudden jump from being an Exhibition class OVERNIGHT to a full fledged Eliminator just like PRO MOD did. It's all about the money with these guys (current mgmt) and has nothing to do with NHRA is/was originally about !!! Comp 387

08-18-2010, 10:37 AM	#29
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,416 Likes: 522 Liked 330 Times in 178 Posts	Re: 30 years ago at Indy SS Div 6 ----I beg to differ with you, the cars that you cited DID in fact run a lot of the same off the shelf parts as a "normal" SBC did---Rings/bearings/ spark plugs/carbs /clutches/tires/ ignitions /gaskets-etc were all currently manufactured and sold over the counter to VW /Mazda/Pinto etc guys!!! The problem IS/WAS NHRA squeezing and demanding MORE money for display areas on the Midways at national meets. Those companies that were there gave away and sold lots of merchandise... It was the charge($$$$$) for booth space as well as those unpaid contigency monies that NHRA POCKETED that escalated dramatically that had many manufacturers choosing to either not participate in the NHRA sponsorship program or on th Midway areas at National meets--Comp