Competition Plus DP and CJ article

[MikeFicacci]

I would love to put an LS motor in my Corvette and run stock eliminator with it along with a low rating like the CJ/DP cars. The only problem I have found is that the people over at General Motors (more specifically, GM Racing), don't give a crap about drag racing since the last man in GM Racing that was around for Top Stock. Whoever took over seems more concerned with the C6R program and in-line 4 cylinders out on the salt flats.

The second problem deals with the forced air combinations. I have heard several "chevy" people on here say, "how about the CTS-V LSA rated at 425?" Well...I hope you like looking at tail lights. The problem with the LSA (1.9 liter blower) rated at the same horsepower as the 330 or 281 cube Fords is that the three and four valve engines respond much better with boost so rated at the same horsepower, were still going to get smacked, especially if stock boost is required.

P.S. An LS engine with a 4.0 liter blower sitting on top will fit under the flat C3 corvette hood with plenty of room to spare.

[Sean Kennedy]

Bobby,

You make a lot of sense. I'm surprised some jerk off hasn't come on here to call you a clown yet.

[Ken Miele]

Alan,

I will just have to respectfully disagree with you. I can see your point with the Chevy, but Ford offered no less then 8 different engines between 1967 and 1970. With very few if any parts that were interchangeable.

The rules of the 60's and 70's were also abused, I see no difference today. I don't think its right, but its the way the world works. You look for an advantage and you use the rules to exploit that advantage. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Alan, like I said, I respectfully disagree and its not a personal thing with me, its just how I see life and racing.

[Wayne Kerr]

Thank you Ken,
Your viewpoint is refreshing, since you are actually affected by 2 CJ combinations as well as the 6.1L Challenger.
I tried to make a point in an earlier thread that there should only be maybe 16 guys in the country with a real legitimate b!tch, those that previously had the "fastest" AA thru G stock automatics and stickshifts.

The 5.7L Hemi's are taking a beating from the "non working" A.H.F.S. The remaining DP's and CJ's have been dinged at least once as well.

For those that are calling for actual shipping weights, they should be forced to race a 4000 pound race car.

Lastly, I would encourage everyone to read the first page of the rulebook in the Stock Eliminator section. It goes something like this; Manufacturers may submit a special production run of 50 vehicles.....and ends with "Accepance does not imply precident"

These so called "Paper" or "Crate engine" cars are a product of the NHRA rulebook.

See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Ken Miele

Terry,

I think that's kind of a stretch, except for Indy. Many people on Class Racer like yourself say its getting to expensive to race, and these cars are expensive according to them. NHRA is loosing participants because of they way they are treated, and they are not happy with the new cars hp ratings. If this is all true, I don't think anyone that continues to race with NHRA will have to worry about qualifying.

Very true but Indy is the race of all races and they are ALWAYS loaded with cars. This is the race that counts to a lot of people. By next year there will be more new combos and unless NHRA puts them into their own class, as I have heard, it wont make much sense for any of the upper (and lower) class older cars cars to enter Indy. Whats the use in going if you can not qualify? Not to mention the Div 1 points races and the Keystones are usually packed. .

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Wayne Kerr

Thank you Ken,
Your viewpoint is refreshing, since you are actually affected by 2 CJ combinations as well as the 6.1L Challenger.
I tried to make a point in an earlier thread that there should only be maybe 16 guys in the country with a real legitimate b!tch, those that previously had the "fastest" AA thru G stock automatics and stickshifts.

The 5.7L Hemi's are taking a beating from the "non working" A.H.F.S. The remaining DP's and CJ's have been dinged at least once as well.

For those that are calling for actual shipping weights, they should be forced to race a 4000 pound race car.

Lastly, I would encourage everyone to read the first page of the rulebook in the Stock Eliminator section. It goes something like this; Manufacturers may submit a special production run of 50 vehicles.....and ends with "Accepance does not imply precident"

These so called "Paper" or "Crate engine" cars are a product of the NHRA rulebook.

See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

blah blah blah

[Ken Miele]

Wayne, your going to take heat for your post. I just wish members could stay civil.

Terry, so which is it? NHRA loosing racers or NHRA is gaining racers.

I'm confused, you and others say its NHRA is doomed, but then you say more and more racers are build or buying new cars that will stop the old cars from qualifying.........very confused here.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Wayne Kerr

Thank you Ken,
Your viewpoint is refreshing, since you are actually affected by 2 CJ combinations as well as the 6.1L Challenger.
I tried to make a point in an earlier thread that there should only be maybe 16 guys in the country with a real legitimate b!tch, those that previously had the "fastest" AA thru G stock automatics and stickshifts.

The 5.7L Hemi's are taking a beating from the "non working" A.H.F.S. The remaining DP's and CJ's have been dinged at least once as well.

For those that are calling for actual shipping weights, they should be forced to race a 4000 pound race car.

Lastly, I would encourage everyone to read the first page of the rulebook in the Stock Eliminator section. It goes something like this; Manufacturers may submit a special production run of 50 vehicles.....and ends with "Accepance does not imply precident"

These so called "Paper" or "Crate engine" cars are a product of the NHRA rulebook.

See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

Yeah, you "tried to make the point" alright. Your point does not hold water,and is in fact completely moot and invalid. For example, we run AA/SA and A/SA, east of the Mississippi. The previous fastest AA/SA and A/SA cars were almost certainly Bobby DeArmond, and the Sorenson Brothers. Neither have been east of the Mississippi in a few years. We have been reasonably competitive, although not the fastest by any means, in our region. Two class wins at National Events, and two class wins at Bowling Green, and a couple of heads up wins in eliminations. So we had ourselves a decent, and improving A/SA and AA/SA car. But now there are easily a dozen "new" cars that we can't hope to compete with. Anyone who was already racing a reasonably competitive traditional production based car in a class that is now faced with cars that run 1.3-1.7 under the index in 3000 feet of air has a legitimate complaint, the fact that you think otherwise is completely irrelevant.

Are you, as an owner, driver, or engine builder, having to race any of those cars heads up?

As to the AHFS working, we've seen "new" C/SA cars running 9.70's, in 3000 feet of air. There are maybe 3-4 AA/SA "old" cars in the country that might be able to in the 9.70's in 3000 feet of air. Now, how long do you think it will take to get that C/SA car factored all the way to AA/SA, and then add another 200# to it so that it runs 9.80-9.90 in 3000 feet of air like the best of the "old" AA./SA cars?

No one said the new bogus cars were not a product of the new rule book. In fact, that is the point most are making.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Ken Miele

Alan,

I will just have to respectfully disagree with you. I can see your point with the Chevy, but Ford offered no less then 8 different engines between 1967 and 1970. With very few if any parts that were interchangeable.

The rules of the 60's and 70's were also abused, I see no difference today. I don't think its right, but its the way the world works. You look for an advantage and you use the rules to exploit that advantage. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Alan, like I said, I respectfully disagree and its not a personal thing with me, its just how I see life and racing.

Ken I can respect your position. I bear no personal grudge towards any of the guys, or girls, with the new cars, many of them are friends, I like and respect them as well. And I understand the fact that Ford has a lot more combinations with a lot less interchangeability.

Yeah, I can see where the previous rules may have been bent, I suppose.

I have no problem with a racer seeking out a legitimate combination in the guide with an advantage, and exploiting that advantage. That is racing.

The problem I have is with the factories and NHRA exploiting the racers by making the rules and the factors up as they go along to suit them.

Even the wealthiest racer, by himself, on his own budget, can do only so much damage, as there is only one of him. But when you bring the full force of factory money in to exploit their power and funding to the fullest possible extent, that same racer, even if he is the wealthiest, cannot hope to compete with the factories, and is forced to either go with the flow, take a whipping, or quit.

[Sean Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Ken I can respect your position. I bear no personal grudge towards any of the guys, or girls, with the new cars, many of them are friends, I like and respect them as well. And I understand the fact that Ford has a lot more combinations with a lot less interchangeability.

Yeah, I can see where the previous rules may have been bent, I suppose.

I have no problem with a racer seeking out a legitimate combination in the guide with an advantage, and exploiting that advantage. That is racing.

The problem I have is with the factories and NHRA exploiting the racers by making the rules and the factors up as they go along to suit them.

Even the wealthiest racer, by himself, on his own budget, can do only so much damage, as there is only one of him. But when you bring the full force of factory money in to exploit their power and funding to the fullest possible extent, that same racer, even if he is the wealthiest, cannot hope to compete with the factories, and is forced to either go with the flow, take a whipping, or quit.

I could not agree with you more, and am not articulate or smart enough to say it half as well.