How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? - Page 10

stefan callender · 02-04-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

At events where Class Racing is contested:

For the purpose of Class Eliminations, combine classes to lessen the number of overall classes, and to increase the difficulty in winning. This is racing, not singling! I've singled for enough class trophies and don't feel any sense of pride from it. Raise the entry fee to anyone who wants to participate and have 100% of the money go back to the racers, but anyone wishing not to participate can pay regular fee and stay in normal class.

Example:
AA/S and AA/SA, run together.

A/S, B/S, C/S and the automatic versions all run in one class.

D,E, F

G, H, I

J, K, L

M, N, O

P, Q, R,

All FWD, run staggared tree off own index or class closest to weight break.

Of course I understand that this doesn't suit everyone, but we have to be proactive and accept changes for this to survive and potentially grow. There would be eight class champions and each would be well earned. Yes, you may have to swing some weight, but that's racing my friends.

At the same time change the following:

Award points for qualifying: 16 to the number one qualifier, then 15, 14, etc and 1 point for 16th place.

Award round-win points for rounds won during Class Eliminations. If you can earn points for a heads-up run in eliminations, why not get some points for Class. And combining classes would allow everyone an opportunity to earn some valued points.

Award 20 points for setting a national record, up to twice per season.

This is a simple reward for those who show up because they actually like the performance aspect of Stock and Super Stock.

Great Idea Evan.

Dick Butler · 02-04-2011, 10:50 AM

Evan,
Some of the combining would be hard due to Wt of cars and HP factors but you are on the correct ideas. Open mindedness is needed for the good of all racers and Class in general.
"Paying for records", round wins performance etc will be key to getting AHFS to work as well as it should. Points toward chanmpionship IS THE good idea.Bracket style driving is not the only thing that needs to be rewarded in Drag Racing. It is a PERFORMANCE style racing too.

Jim Bailey · 02-12-2011, 12:30 PM

I think it's more than just saving class racing in general. I think its about saving NHRA Drag Racing period. I know that's a big statement, but not totally out of the question. The "System" needs an overhaul. I would separated Pro and Sportsman Racing, Completely. Two completely different Series. My PRO SERIES (National Events) events would be "ALL" Heads up, Pro Start, first one to the finish line racing. Top Fuel, Funny Car, Pro Stock, Alky F/C, and Jr. (Injected)Fuel. There would be no Alky Dragsters. It would include,Top Super Stock, Top Jr. Super Stock, Top Stock, and Top Jr. Stock. And Finally a Factory F/X Class. ..... My SPORTSMEN SERIES would be a total Sportsnational Type Event. Featuring Alky Dragsters, Comp. Elim, Super Stock, Stock, S.St, S.Gas, and S. Comp. Class Eliminations would be contested at these events.... There would be two completely different purse structures, entry fees, etc.( You would have to qualify for this series through you division races,( ie: grade points.).....I'm not sure how, but at a single race, ie: INDY, I would bring in the Top 10 cars from each class, from each division, plus Sportsnats winners, for a standard handicap race. CIC Style, however, the AHFS would not apply to this single event.
I would go with around a 20 Event Pro Series and a 10 Event Sportsnationals. No National Opens. Then of course, your Divisional Series.

Jim Bailey · 02-12-2011, 09:24 PM

One Change, and one addition. No Alky FC at the Pro National Events. I'd run Pro Mod instead. Then, Show case Alky F/C and Alky Dragster at the SportsNational Events, No nitro cars of any kind at Sportsmen Events for insurance reasons. The Addition would be, I'd make Bill Bader the Sportsman Series Director.

Don Carpenter · 02-14-2011, 03:19 AM

Jim,
I think you are on the right track with your idea. (Class) racing as we know it needs to evolve to the the next level. Since the manufacturers don't want to pay for bye runs or support class racing consistantly, why not have a qualified field as in comp and reward quaifiers with points or qualifing bonuses if contingency money is available. No need to consolidate or eliminate classes, qualify against the index and every one will know who has the fastest car in the class. No AHFS during quailifying so records could be set with out penalty. Limit two classes per season so there won't be the( killer combo of the week). I have done some calculations from Nitro Joes stats, and for the most part the average under the index is .7-.8 under in almost every NHRA class. Using those numbers, the event CIC would start at -.710-.800. Permanant HP adjustments would start at .810-..849 =1.25x HPfor that engine family and continue up the scale in .05 increments using the current AHFS tables. This would bring new combos in line in a very short time. For example, the CJ at the current HP would receive 38 HP for a 1.20 under run during eliminations. Of course permanent adjustments should go through tear down before HP is applied. Sportsman races should be run on a divisional level. Each one should be a Sportsnationals, at season end the top ten in each class from each division race at a central location for the national championship.
Of course NHRA is not going to embrace this since they would loose the sportsman dollars at national events. If any one at IHRA was on the ball, they would be capitalizing on the current state of unrest in Glendora. Maybe its time for a new organization!
I firmly believe we need to change the sportsman format if our performance based racing is to survive. Anything else is just a bracket race. And we can do that every week end at home! I know I'm going to hear from everyone on this board that can't run .700 under. My message to you is (INDEX RACING) if you want to compete at the big show! After looking at the Bradenton results, I would be concerened if I had a .90 car with electronics, you might become extinct real soon. As will stock and S/S if we keep riding a dead horse.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong!

PS The new cic rules in comp should also apply to my above proposal, to compensate for mine shaft conditions and end of the year index or HP adjustments. These numbers could all change if we loose the cars that can't run close to .7under that will raise the class average for the event and permanent triggers. Or we could throw out any runs below .65 under to figure new class averages and adjust the triggers accordingly to start with.

Jim Bailey · 02-14-2011, 07:43 PM

Don: you touched on a very important point. Why should the sportsman racers continue to support the pros? Let the each series stand by it self, and support it self, just like any well run business should. (Just one example; The sportsman racers pay exactly the same insurance surcharge as the nitro teams do !) We all know how insurance and premiums work. Have we killed anybody lately? Does this make sense to anyone? This is just one example, I'm sure there are many more.

X-TECH MAN · 02-14-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bailey

One Change, and one addition. No Alky FC at the Pro National Events. I'd run Pro Mod instead. Then, Show case Alky F/C and Alky Dragster at the SportsNational Events, No nitro cars of any kind at Sportsmen Events for insurance reasons. The Addition would be, I'd make Bill Bader the Sportsman Series Director.

How about no Alky cars at the SporstNational events either. Leave them for the nationals with all the other prima donas so they can help keep the tracks from rusting. Im not saying this to be funny. These guys belong with the other blown Pro cars. They take to much time to run from the real sportsman racers. Just my opinion here. Pro Mod would be a better spectator draw for Sports Nationals.

tim worner · 02-23-2011, 04:53 PM

We might want to start worrying about the overall eliminators. Two years ago 60 decals on car this year 35. That's $7500 less but NHRA is still giving out their $1800 to win.

Dan DeBlasio · 03-16-2011, 10:14 PM

Having been involved in the sport since 63 and having worked for many of the major manufactures in the performance industry for 32 years in marketing and sales I'm going to present a few questions and will be interested to see the answers that are brought forth.

Please read these with the knowledge that I'm an avid class racing fan and past competitor however looking at it through a manufactures eyes and asking the question. How can I increase sales and profits and by how much by offering up sponsporship cash to class racers?

Looking at the facts. There are not that many class racers in the country anymore and what there was just 5 years ago has dwindled due to the economy.

Who watches class racing? I.E. what is my target market?
How much media coverage does class racing receive compared to other drag racing venues? I.E. UDRA, and various other forms of unlimited heads up style events.

What media covers class racing? Is it TV coverage or a magazine or 2 that only those that understand the segment read?

How many fans actually understand and pay attention to class racing out of the overall current fan base of drag racing?

By finding the true answers to these questions perhaps we can help save the classes.

It seems that like in the years of old the only way to stimulate any true interest in class racing is when the big (not so big anymore) 3 produce cars for and support class racing. These cars however have and will continue to change class racing forever virtually obsoleting the cars of the past.

I believe the writing is on the wall for class racing its just a question of how long it will take for support to wane to the point where the same thing that happened to sport compact racing becomes reality in the segment. When the money goes away --- well along with it goes the segment.

True class racers are drawn to the segment because they like to tune and refine their combinations. They like to pick sleeper combinations and see how far under they can get them to run.

It is percieved that class racing is performance driven, but really is it? Shoe polish is used, brake lights are lit, break outs determine many a race making it once again hard for those that are not hard core followers to understand what the objective is.

Would the sponsors rather think that the only potential customers they might glean from their support are this hard core bunch (we see them in the stands at national events at 8:00 AM on Saturday mornings) and not many of them and at divisional (barely any that are not with competitors) or would they rather support segments where a much broader base of fans (jamming the stands) are potential customers?

Again, I'm a life long supporter of class racing but looking at supporting it from a business stand point begs that these questions be answered and if those answers can't point to a solid return on investment then why would supporting the segment make any sense?

Let the answers begin and a safe and successful racing season to all.

Ken Miele · 03-16-2011, 10:42 PM

Dan,

Let me give you a couple of facts about the popularity of Class Racing. There are more Stock and Super Stock competition numbers registered with NHRA then ever before. While numbers at the track do not reflect the the actual registered racers, I am sure there are a number of reasons that are obvious and not so obvious. The fact remains Stock and Super Stock are very popular. Comparing us to the sport compact series is not a fair comparison.

If Stock and Super Stock are dieing Classes, how do you explain the popularity of this site. The numbers on Class Racer increase every year. The most popular section is Stock and Super Stock. All of the 42,000 plus unique visitors a month are not racers, I would estimate that 60% to 70% are fans. I think the interest is there along with the racers, someone just needs to step up and start using Stock and Super Stock as an asset, not a liability.

Stock and Super Stock are a huge resource that can help both NHRA and the manufactures. Why would Chrysler and Ford invest into a class that has no future?

02-04-2011, 10:50 AM	#92
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? Evan, Some of the combining would be hard due to Wt of cars and HP factors but you are on the correct ideas. Open mindedness is needed for the good of all racers and Class in general. "Paying for records", round wins performance etc will be key to getting AHFS to work as well as it should. Points toward chanmpionship IS THE good idea.Bracket style driving is not the only thing that needs to be rewarded in Drag Racing. It is a PERFORMANCE style racing too.

02-12-2011, 12:30 PM	#93
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? I think it's more than just saving class racing in general. I think its about saving NHRA Drag Racing period. I know that's a big statement, but not totally out of the question. The "System" needs an overhaul. I would separated Pro and Sportsman Racing, Completely. Two completely different Series. My PRO SERIES (National Events) events would be "ALL" Heads up, Pro Start, first one to the finish line racing. Top Fuel, Funny Car, Pro Stock, Alky F/C, and Jr. (Injected)Fuel. There would be no Alky Dragsters. It would include,Top Super Stock, Top Jr. Super Stock, Top Stock, and Top Jr. Stock. And Finally a Factory F/X Class. ..... My SPORTSMEN SERIES would be a total Sportsnational Type Event. Featuring Alky Dragsters, Comp. Elim, Super Stock, Stock, S.St, S.Gas, and S. Comp. Class Eliminations would be contested at these events.... There would be two completely different purse structures, entry fees, etc.( You would have to qualify for this series through you division races,( ie: grade points.).....I'm not sure how, but at a single race, ie: INDY, I would bring in the Top 10 cars from each class, from each division, plus Sportsnats winners, for a standard handicap race. CIC Style, however, the AHFS would not apply to this single event. I would go with around a 20 Event Pro Series and a 10 Event Sportsnationals. No National Opens. Then of course, your Divisional Series.

02-12-2011, 09:24 PM	#94
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? One Change, and one addition. No Alky FC at the Pro National Events. I'd run Pro Mod instead. Then, Show case Alky F/C and Alky Dragster at the SportsNational Events, No nitro cars of any kind at Sportsmen Events for insurance reasons. The Addition would be, I'd make Bill Bader the Sportsman Series Director.

02-14-2011, 03:19 AM	#95
Don Carpenter Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ambridge Pa. Posts: 10 Likes: 14 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? Jim, I think you are on the right track with your idea. (Class) racing as we know it needs to evolve to the the next level. Since the manufacturers don't want to pay for bye runs or support class racing consistantly, why not have a qualified field as in comp and reward quaifiers with points or qualifing bonuses if contingency money is available. No need to consolidate or eliminate classes, qualify against the index and every one will know who has the fastest car in the class. No AHFS during quailifying so records could be set with out penalty. Limit two classes per season so there won't be the( killer combo of the week). I have done some calculations from Nitro Joes stats, and for the most part the average under the index is .7-.8 under in almost every NHRA class. Using those numbers, the event CIC would start at -.710-.800. Permanant HP adjustments would start at .810-..849 =1.25x HPfor that engine family and continue up the scale in .05 increments using the current AHFS tables. This would bring new combos in line in a very short time. For example, the CJ at the current HP would receive 38 HP for a 1.20 under run during eliminations. Of course permanent adjustments should go through tear down before HP is applied. Sportsman races should be run on a divisional level. Each one should be a Sportsnationals, at season end the top ten in each class from each division race at a central location for the national championship. Of course NHRA is not going to embrace this since they would loose the sportsman dollars at national events. If any one at IHRA was on the ball, they would be capitalizing on the current state of unrest in Glendora. Maybe its time for a new organization! I firmly believe we need to change the sportsman format if our performance based racing is to survive. Anything else is just a bracket race. And we can do that every week end at home! I know I'm going to hear from everyone on this board that can't run .700 under. My message to you is (INDEX RACING) if you want to compete at the big show! After looking at the Bradenton results, I would be concerened if I had a .90 car with electronics, you might become extinct real soon. As will stock and S/S if we keep riding a dead horse. Just my opinion, I could be wrong! PS The new cic rules in comp should also apply to my above proposal, to compensate for mine shaft conditions and end of the year index or HP adjustments. These numbers could all change if we loose the cars that can't run close to .7under that will raise the class average for the event and permanent triggers. Or we could throw out any runs below .65 under to figure new class averages and adjust the triggers accordingly to start with.

02-14-2011, 07:43 PM	#96
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? Don: you touched on a very important point. Why should the sportsman racers continue to support the pros? Let the each series stand by it self, and support it self, just like any well run business should. (Just one example; The sportsman racers pay exactly the same insurance surcharge as the nitro teams do !) We all know how insurance and premiums work. Have we killed anybody lately? Does this make sense to anyone? This is just one example, I'm sure there are many more.

02-23-2011, 04:53 PM	#98
tim worner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: duncannon Posts: 837 Likes: 14 Liked 126 Times in 20 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? We might want to start worrying about the overall eliminators. Two years ago 60 decals on car this year 35. That's $7500 less but NHRA is still giving out their $1800 to win. __________________ Tim Worner SS 1747

03-16-2011, 10:14 PM	#99
Dan DeBlasio Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Villages, FL Posts: 7 Likes: 33 Liked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? Having been involved in the sport since 63 and having worked for many of the major manufactures in the performance industry for 32 years in marketing and sales I'm going to present a few questions and will be interested to see the answers that are brought forth. Please read these with the knowledge that I'm an avid class racing fan and past competitor however looking at it through a manufactures eyes and asking the question. How can I increase sales and profits and by how much by offering up sponsporship cash to class racers? Looking at the facts. There are not that many class racers in the country anymore and what there was just 5 years ago has dwindled due to the economy. Who watches class racing? I.E. what is my target market? How much media coverage does class racing receive compared to other drag racing venues? I.E. UDRA, and various other forms of unlimited heads up style events. What media covers class racing? Is it TV coverage or a magazine or 2 that only those that understand the segment read? How many fans actually understand and pay attention to class racing out of the overall current fan base of drag racing? By finding the true answers to these questions perhaps we can help save the classes. It seems that like in the years of old the only way to stimulate any true interest in class racing is when the big (not so big anymore) 3 produce cars for and support class racing. These cars however have and will continue to change class racing forever virtually obsoleting the cars of the past. I believe the writing is on the wall for class racing its just a question of how long it will take for support to wane to the point where the same thing that happened to sport compact racing becomes reality in the segment. When the money goes away --- well along with it goes the segment. True class racers are drawn to the segment because they like to tune and refine their combinations. They like to pick sleeper combinations and see how far under they can get them to run. It is percieved that class racing is performance driven, but really is it? Shoe polish is used, brake lights are lit, break outs determine many a race making it once again hard for those that are not hard core followers to understand what the objective is. Would the sponsors rather think that the only potential customers they might glean from their support are this hard core bunch (we see them in the stands at national events at 8:00 AM on Saturday mornings) and not many of them and at divisional (barely any that are not with competitors) or would they rather support segments where a much broader base of fans (jamming the stands) are potential customers? Again, I'm a life long supporter of class racing but looking at supporting it from a business stand point begs that these questions be answered and if those answers can't point to a solid return on investment then why would supporting the segment make any sense? Let the answers begin and a safe and successful racing season to all.

03-16-2011, 10:42 PM	#100
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,862 Likes: 456 Liked 16,558 Times in 1,523 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? Dan, Let me give you a couple of facts about the popularity of Class Racing. There are more Stock and Super Stock competition numbers registered with NHRA then ever before. While numbers at the track do not reflect the the actual registered racers, I am sure there are a number of reasons that are obvious and not so obvious. The fact remains Stock and Super Stock are very popular. Comparing us to the sport compact series is not a fair comparison. If Stock and Super Stock are dieing Classes, how do you explain the popularity of this site. The numbers on Class Racer increase every year. The most popular section is Stock and Super Stock. All of the 42,000 plus unique visitors a month are not racers, I would estimate that 60% to 70% are fans. I think the interest is there along with the racers, someone just needs to step up and start using Stock and Super Stock as an asset, not a liability. Stock and Super Stock are a huge resource that can help both NHRA and the manufactures. Why would Chrysler and Ford invest into a class that has no future?