I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness

[Hagen Gary]

Originally Posted by Jim Woods

Do your homework before you say things you dont know about. The southern s/ss combo races do have the same tech as ihra.

I believe I was refering to the $10k and $5k combo's that are not in the Southern S/SS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the combo's besides yours don't weigh, check fuel, no heads up, no tear down and if I'm reading your rules correctly, NEITHER do you. Looks like you don't have the Tech IHRA has. Hows your homework coming?

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

I believe I was refering to the $10k and $5k combo's that are not in the Southern S/SS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the combo's besides yours don't weigh, check fuel, no heads up, no tear down and if I'm reading your rules correctly, NEITHER do you. Looks like you don't have the Tech IHRA has. Hows your homework coming?

As a matter of fact, the SSSSA, with the exception of fuel check, has the same tech as IHRA. We also do not have heads up runs. We have a certified, card carrying tech official from both NHRA and IHRA on staff. If you had ever raced with us, you would know that we don't particularly like to tear you down but we are not afraid to if it becomes necessary. You have the choice to submit or leave. We weigh at almost every track who has the ability for us to do so. Our main idea is to have fun and a level playing field is part of it. Please feel free to reread our rules. Jim

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=16613

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[novassdude]

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl

As a matter of fact, the SSSSA, with the exception of fuel check, has the same tech as IHRA. We also do not have heads up runs. We have a certified, card carrying tech official from both NHRA and IHRA on staff. If you had ever raced with us, you would know that we don't particularly like to tear you down but we are not afraid to if it becomes necessary. You have the choice to submit or leave. We weigh at almost every track who has the ability for us to do so. Our main idea is to have fun and a level playing field is part of it. Please feel free to reread our rules. Jim

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=16613

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Just wondering since you have the same tech and every thing but fuel check why no heads up? I think that is one thing that keeps some people from running association races. It is the one thing that separates S/SS from a bracket race (that and having to run under the index).

[Hagen Gary]

Originally Posted by novassdude

Just wondering since you have the same tech and every thing but fuel check why no heads up? I think that is one thing that keeps some people from running association races. It is the one thing that separates S/SS from a bracket race (that and having to run under the index).

See there Mr. Woods. This is what I was refering to when I said the combo races don't have the same IHRA tech. Sure, The southern S/SS has a little more than the rest, but NOT the same. Like Magic, people get excited about a combo with no heads up, fuel check or weighting because there is more cash involved in the 10k and 5k races.

[Hagen Gary]

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl

As a matter of fact, the SSSSA, with the exception of fuel check, has the same tech as IHRA. We also do not have heads up runs. We have a certified, card carrying tech official from both NHRA and IHRA on staff. If you had ever raced with us, you would know that we don't particularly like to tear you down but we are not afraid to if it becomes necessary. You have the choice to submit or leave. We weigh at almost every track who has the ability for us to do so. Our main idea is to have fun and a level playing field is part of it. Please feel free to reread our rules. Jim

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=16613

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I did read and reread your rules posted on this forum. I listed four things that are a sticking point with S/SS purest. Weight, fuel check, heads up, and possible tear down. No disrespect to your organization, but you don't do 2 of those things all together (Fuel, Heads up) and then "most" of the time you weight, and it seems to be a point of arguement as to if you would have to tear down or not. Forgive me if I'm totaly wrong here since I never raced at your events, but it sure is hard to get purest involved in that. Going to have fun is cool, if its in your back yard. This arguement goes the same for The Southern S/SS. Put a big payout up there and do those 4 things and I bet a bunch of cars show. BTW, I know I'm not risking anything so its easy for me to say that.

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

I did read and reread your rules posted on this forum. I listed four things that are a sticking point with S/SS purest. Weight, fuel check, heads up, and possible tear down. No disrespect to your organization, but you don't do 2 of those things all together (Fuel, Heads up) and then "most" of the time you weight, and it seems to be a point of arguement as to if you would have to tear down or not. Forgive me if I'm totaly wrong here since I never raced at your events, but it sure is hard to get purest involved in that. Going to have fun is cool, if its in your back yard. This arguement goes the same for The Southern S/SS. Put a big payout up there and do those 4 things and I bet a bunch of cars show. BTW, I know I'm not risking anything so its easy for me to say that.

Our members voted two years ago not to have heads up racing in like classes. We immediately saw a rise in participation. The whole idea for our organization was to let everyone who wants to race with us have a great time and go away with a positive experience. We have several racers who couldn't win a round in class at an NHRA or IHRA class race but who can have the chance to go rounds at one of our races and may just have a good enough experience that they stay with the sport and be competitive at one of the HRA races in the future. I fully agree that there should be heads up in NHRA and IHRA racing but at this time not with the SSSSA. We are trying to grow racers not run them off. Hope you understand the philosophy of our organization. It is working.

Hagen, I am what you would call a purist, maybe an ultra purist. I've been racing since I was 15 (I'm 59 now) and I understand what you are saying. We have many of the best racers in the North and South race with us, most of who I would call purists, but they keep coming back to our races. We have great relationships with guys like Scotty Richardson Michel Beard, Myron Piatek, The Helms brothers, the Teutons, and the list goes on. We race at big quarter mile tracks and small eighth mile tracks and our biggest goal is to provide the racer and his family with a good positive and fun experience. All S/SS racers, not just the purists. Try us out some time and then let me know what you think. Jim

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

If IHRA were to give SS the same payout as T/S (not sayin they should be equal) then it would take 40 cars to pay it off. With that kind of money, I feel confident that 40 will show.

A purse needs to not only pay for itself, but also produce a net percentage. At 40 cars, you're asking the promoters to take an additional hit of $2,400 to $2,700 per class, close to $13,000 per event. In order to keep the net percentage of the typical SS car count, it would require roughly 80 cars in Super Stock to pay the same purse as T/S, in which case you would also have to make it to the 4th round before receiving any money. 80 cars. And that's for $2,500 to win. To really draw cars, does it need to be $5K/win or $10K/win? Now what do those numbers have to be?

Yes, people are excited about $10K combos. They are put on by racers, for racers. The return on investment of such races cannot sustain the overhead of a track and sanctioning body unless they are a complete home run. Even the US Class Nationals, by all accounts the single best S/SS race of all time, has not been duplicated.

I work closely with tracks and independent promoters, and have even dabbled in race promotion myself. It's never as easy as it looks, and can be downright scary.

In my opinion, NHRA Div. 2 went about it wrong. By adding more classes they did nothing but burden the schedule and add overhead. You're better off trying to attract additional cars to your existing classes. And MUCH better off trying to draw spectators. It's much easier to get 10 more people through the gate than it is 10 more cars.

$.02,

[Mike Carr]

Jim made a good post. Our S/SS Association races are for fun, and, usually, some good money to be won. Some tracks do not have scales, some don't. We don't weight or fuel check any cars, because I don't have the money to pay someone to come do it. So, with no advantage to weight, fuel, etc, we don't have heads-up runs. And that is "OK" with 90% or more of the racers who compete. I polled a few racers last year, and no one had a problem with the way we do things (even those with really fast cars and love the heads-up racing). As long as a car runs the Index, they are OK. And, everyone that has run one of my races has competed at one time or another in NHRA/IHRA racing, so no one is building a bracket car and trying to pass it off as a Class car.

Comparatively speaking, our Tri-State S/SS payouts blow NHRA and IHRA's payouts away. Using posted Divisional payouts for NHRA/IHRA and us, based on a 40 car field in each:

NHRA IHRA Our series
1st round X X X
2nd round X X $50
3rd round 100 80 100
4th round 125 120 200
5th round 150 160 400
Runner-up 500 400 (500S/S) 700
Winner 1,000 1000 (1100S/S) 1,500

NHRA Div'l is $150-$170 entry, depending on what Division you're in. IHRA entry is $135. Ours is $100. For what is usually a one day race (Hagerstown is two days, one is test and tune and a S/SS Gamblers, and the other is the main race). For the time off, entry vs payout, travel, etc, our races are a much better deal.

As far as the friendly part of IHRA, I've never had a bad experience with them (or NHRA, for that matter), from the standpoint of race officials, track officials, etc. All have been friendly and helpful. Better payouts, in each, would go a long way however to being even more friendly.

[Hagen Gary]

I guess I'm no math genius, but it seems pretty simple to me. 40 cars X $200= $8000. That covers the $2,500 to win, $600 semi, ect. purse by $100. If they are lucky to get 14 cars at BR, 14 X $200= $2800 and covers the current purse by $300. So yeah, i see your logic. they make $200 more dollars by only having 14 cars and a S#!t purse. Nevermind the memeberships and pit crew all those other cars would bring in.

[Hagen Gary]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

A purse needs to not only pay for itself, but also produce a net percentage. At 40 cars, you're asking the promoters to take an additional hit of $2,400 to $2,700 per class, close to $13,000 per event. In order to keep the net percentage of the typical SS car count, it would require roughly 80 cars in Super Stock to pay the same purse as T/S, in which case you would also have to make it to the 4th round before receiving any money. 80 cars. And that's for $2,500 to win. To really draw cars, does it need to be $5K/win or $10K/win? Now what do those numbers have to be?

$.02,

I'm confused agian.... 80 cars X $200 = $16,000... Am I wrong here? How do you need $16,000 to cover T/S's purse of $7,900 in total?

You cant add up all of the other classes purse increase of $13,000 and then try to Just limit SS entries to make up for it. What are you smoking, I need some of that!