87 mustang Stocker - help me not get laughed off the track!

[alejan1975]

I have never raced in class racing but got my intro in the mid 90s working at a machine shop that built some stocker engines.

I have a cheap 87 mustang with th following

6 point chromoly cage
Stock motor down to the factory air cleaner
Spec stage 2+ clutch
SFI alum flywheel and blow proof bellhousing
Gutted Interior
Race seat/4 pt harness
33spline axles full spool 4.56 gears
Rear adjustable upper and fixed lower control arms
Weld 15x8 w new MT et streets
Weld 15x4 w mt front runners


My plan is to add:

Kooks long tube headers
Msd ignition
Front drag shocks
E fan
Manual steering Rack

Motor will be low dollar to start. I am taking a stock shortblock I have and will have the block cleaned, plate honed, and windage tray / studs, Line hone and decked, new cam bearings. Stock pistons cleaned, big end of Rods resized. If the crank will allow, offset grind .013 (will have to check how far the pistons will come out of the block- may pass if they would be out more than .005.

Was going to call comp and talk to their guys about getting a stocker grind Not looking to go custom - nit sure what they have but will prob shoot for a milder grind as i am cutting my teeth, and will have better luck with shifting, dialin it in etc if its not turnjng 8k rpm (also living w stock rod bolts And bo balance)

I have a set of stock heads laying around that we're rebuilt and run for 10k miles. I will have a fresh valve job addded and milled to minimum cc per the rules, and add appropriate springs and retainers.

Probably will stick with the stock computer and tune with a quarter horse tuner(allows me to flash computer w laptop).

Not expecting to set any records, hoping just to field a car that will get me started. Index is 12.85 if I looked this up right, I'm hoping to run 12.50s out of the gate with room to improve.

If I stick with it I imagine a real engine in the future along with faceplated trans, built rear etc.

So let me have it -where am I way off?

Thanks!

[Jeff Lee]

Ring seal - ring seal - ring seal
You need quality CP, JE or whatever quality piston is available for your engine along with quality rings such as offered by Total Seal or others.
And I seriously doubt the clutch you have will live much less perform well. There's a lot you can give up on the engine if you have a better than average suspension and clutch.
We've all been under budget restraints, just some things need to be done right or it will be nothing but frustrating.
Good luck.

[Mark Yacavone]

I can't imagine that T 5 holding up very long with a V 8 .
You can slick shift 2, 3 ,4 and take the 5th gear out of it. Might last a little while..
Do yourself a spare one!
Going to have to do something with the shifter to keep from going from 2nd to 5th .
As Jeff said ..Good luck

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

I can't imagine that T 5 holding up very long with a V 8 .
You can slick shift 2, 3 ,4 and take the 5th gear out of it. Might last a little while..
Do yourself a spare one!
Going to have to do something with the shifter to keep from going from 2nd to 5th .
As Jeff said ..Good luck

Gotta agree with Mark. When I started racing my 85 Mustang, I figured since I had been bracket racing my high 12 second daily driver 302 Fairmont for several years with a junkyard T5, that a T5 and street style clutch should be fine in my lighter and not that much quicker Mustang. I was wrong. By the end of that abbreviated 1rst season, I had 2 broken/damaged T5s. For the next year, I bucked up for a used Jerico DR4, and a used McLeod Soft Lok clutch assembly, which I had rebuilt by McLeod. 10 seasons later, the Jerico is still untouched, even with my mid 10 second bracket engine in the car the past 1 1/2 years.. Good used T5s are worth a few hundreds bucks each, busted ones, next to nothing.

[alejan1975]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Gotta agree with Mark. When I started racing my 85 Mustang, I figured since I had been bracket racing my high 12 second daily driver 302 Fairmont for several years with a junkyard T5, that a T5 and street style clutch should be fine in my lighter and not that much quicker Mustang. I was wrong. By the end of that abbreviated 1rst season, I had 2 broken/damaged T5s. For the next year, I bucked up for a used Jerico DR4, and a used McLeod Soft Lok clutch assembly, which I had rebuilt by McLeod. 10 seasons later, the Jerico is still untouched, even with my mid 10 second bracket engine in the car the past 1 1/2 years.. Good used T5s are worth a few hundreds bucks each, busted ones, next to nothing.

That's interesting - do you know why it didn't last once you started racing but was fine before?

I do have a spare that I was planning on rebuilding with G force internals. Supposedly they are good for 450 ftlbs but I've heard mixed things.

Thx for the input - ill look for ways to upgrade the trans/clutch

[Mike Taylor 3601]

Would'nt skip balancing rotating assm,will live alot better balanced
Mike Taylor 3601

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by alejan1975

That's interesting - do you know why it didn't last once you started racing but was fine before?

I do have a spare that I was planning on rebuilding with G force internals. Supposedly they are good for 450 ftlbs but I've heard mixed things.

Thx for the input - ill look for ways to upgrade the trans/clutch

Launching a street car at 3000 RPM is a lot different than leaving at 5500-6000RPM. Twisted the mainshaft on 1 trans, broke a main case on the other, also had a slider pile up on the hub. If you retain the stock mainshaft, that is a weak li9nk, regardless on how much HP the trans shop says the gears are good to.

[Sean Marconette]

As others have stated. Your throwing money away on the T-5. My modified crash box lasted longer than it should have but when it went it was all junk. If it means saving money it will be money well spent, a used Jerico, or G-Force. Call G-Force, they sell rebuilt trade-ins at a reduced cost over new ones. They are not cheap but it will be bullet proof. These BTW are a GF-4A or a GF-5R. Also the clutch is what is going to kill the T-5, as it is an On/Off clutch. Do not buy an over the counter or mailorder clutch. You will not get the correct clutch for a Stocker if you do.

As for the engine. My original junk shortblock with a budget rebuild and stock rods with stock rod bolts is still in one piece and it saw lots of 6000-7000 rpm passes. I always thought it would be the weak link and not the T-5. It is my spare but would not hold a candle to the current engine.

I may be a little apprehensive that if you do just a stocker cam and a valve job on the heads you will get it to run index. You won't know until you try. But if so that would be cool.

From the sounds of your interior, that needs to follow the rules. It has to be a full interior minus the backseat if you have a rollbar. Before diving into this, read the rule book. What is allowed and what is not is very important. Attend a National Open, divisional, S/SS race, and ask questions, hang out and watch tech, and what they are doing. This is a very rules restricted class so it is important that you are aware of what is required in order to play. Everyone here and at the track in our class are the best people and will help in any way, so jump in and we will help if possible.

BTW if you add your name it will give you credibility, and not just another person standing behind a screen name. It will allow more conversation and willingness for people to help you.

Hope this helps

Sean

[alejan1975]

Originally Posted by Sean Marconette

As others have stated. Your throwing money away on the T-5. My modified crash box lasted longer than it should have but when it went it was all junk. If it means saving money it will be money well spent, a used Jerico, or G-Force. Call G-Force, they sell rebuilt trade-ins at a reduced cost over new ones. They are not cheap but it will be bullet proof. These BTW are a GF-4A or a GF-5R. Also the clutch is what is going to kill the T-5, as it is an On/Off clutch. Do not buy an over the counter or mailorder clutch. You will not get the correct clutch for a Stocker if you do.

As for the engine. My original junk shortblock with a budget rebuild and stock rods with stock rod bolts is still in one piece and it saw lots of 6000-7000 rpm passes. I always thought it would be the weak link and not the T-5. It is my spare but would not hold a candle to the current engine.

I may be a little apprehensive that if you do just a stocker cam and a valve job on the heads you will get it to run index. You won't know until you try. But if so that would be cool.

From the sounds of your interior, that needs to follow the rules. It has to be a full interior minus the backseat if you have a rollbar. Before diving into this, read the rule book. What is allowed and what is not is very important. Attend a National Open, divisional, S/SS race, and ask questions, hang out and watch tech, and what they are doing. This is a very rules restricted class so it is important that you are aware of what is required in order to play. Everyone here and at the track in our class are the best people and will help in any way, so jump in and we will help if possible.

BTW if you add your name it will give you credibility, and not just another person standing behind a screen name. It will allow more conversation and willingness for people to help you.

Hope this helps

Sean

sean - great points thanks. also thanks to the others, all have added very good value.

i will add my name - i'll have to figure out how to change that - my log in is the same i use for everything so its easy to remember

i bought an NHRA membership and ordered the rule book, i tried looking at the online version and am either too dumb to figure out how to access or the website has some issues right now. Hopefully that shows soon.

i'm not too far from Gforce in PA so i'll see if i can budget a good unit from the get go. i do have a spare t5 that has a bad 3rd gear i coudl get built. May need to sell off some other parts first. Know anyone that needs a Dart 8.2 block and some AFR 185's? . . .

looks like i'll need to rethink the clutch too. I'll be working on this over the winter so i'll def post some pics and updates, probably in the "build" section.

thanks for all the pointers. It is MUCH appreciated.

Alex

[alejan1975]

signature test (name added)