New Eliminator proposition - Page 2

Dick Butler · 03-27-2015, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

I've got a new idea for a "Heads-up" eliminator that's guaranteed to be inexpensive, easy to police and full of thrills! Any full-bodied car, any engine/trans combo, any suspension, any induction, any weight, any cubic inches, on a .5 pro tree.
After the race, any competitor can buy the winners or runner-ups car for 5K. Biggest purse the market will bear paying to the semis. End of year points fund with big money going to the top 3 places!

And again some people are "serious" about discussing possible improvements.

Billy Nees · 03-27-2015, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

And again some people are "serious" about discussing possible improvements.

You're right Dick, it IS a joke. Kind of like discussing creating a new, "heads-up" eliminator at a point in time when NHRA can't even fill a Pro Stock field! Or for that matter, a T/S or T/D field.

Dick Butler · 03-27-2015, 05:13 PM

Billy, Maybe the fact that a Major cut in price by a sealed (fill in Brand) motor or Basic Mod motor could allow those who are on the verge of being priced out of S or SS to stay with it would count. Maybe making a simple tear down would be worth it to a group of Class Racers. Maybe many people could see "their advantages" allowed in a simpler class car. Still keep the rest of the classes, Still have a dial in for bracket race races but Keep It Simpler...NHRA problems in other Eliminators isn't related to this discussion. SS and Stock have racers, today but the factoring, High $ , Tough tear down and lack of a true entry class might all be solved by one class for MANY racers.

Long Term the Factory classes will be Pro Stock anyway just due to Cash required and lack of recognizable cars in Pro.

Tony Corley · 03-27-2015, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

You're right Dick, it IS a joke. Kind of like discussing creating a new, "heads-up" eliminator at a point in time when NHRA can't even fill a Pro Stock field! Or for that matter, a T/S or T/D field.

Pro Stock is unobtainable for the average person, and T/D and T/S are still just quick bracket racing. And yet classes like Coyote Stock in the NMRA, while only a few years old, are continuing to grow. There are people building for that class that have never drag raced before. The problem with the NHRA losing car count is basically this: older racers are getting out, and there is nothing to appeal to the younger racer. Give them a class that they can run without a breakout and be competitive in for a reasonable budget, and I know it would grow. Especially given the fact that guys could then run in divisional races without having to travel all over the country like is currently done in the NMRA/NMCA to run 7 or 9 (or whatever the current number is) of events. I'm not saying it has to be a Coyote, or LS, or for that matter, a factory "anything". But a sealed crate motor with a sealed tuneup opens the door for a lot more involvement.

Don Kennedy · 03-27-2015, 08:12 PM

Stock and Super Stock racing as it is now is not broken. . NHRA will continue to tweak the system . Only a very few racers are complaining the majority are happy with the rules as they are now . no need to change much .

Dick Butler · 03-28-2015, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Kennedy

Stock and Super Stock racing as it is now is not broken. . NHRA will continue to tweak the system . Only a very few racers are complaining the majority are happy with the rules as they are now . no need to change much .

That's One vote for no changes...Everyone is entitled to One vote....If many are looking for options within NHRA they can vote also.

Ven302 · 03-28-2015, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan roehrich

make it really easy. Make all the cars weigh 3200# plus 170# for the driver. I'd skip the "two types of cars" to keep it simple. Everyone gets one (4150 series) carburetor and 14"x32" tires. Five single carburetor classes, five indexes. Easier to factor and police.

A: 470 cubic inches maximum (440 minimum), canted valves, with a 1050 carburetor.

B: 420 cubic inches maximum (390 minimum), inline valve true wedge, with an 950 carburetor.

C: 360 cubic inches maximum (350 minimum), inline valve true wedge, with a 850 carburetor.

D: 305 cubic inches maximum (285 minimum), inline valve true wedge, with a 750 carburetor.

E: 300 cubic inch v6 (minimum 270), inline true wedge, 750 carburetor.

Cast iron oe supplied block, any oe supplied cylinder head, cast intake, steel connecting rods.

Nhra approved carburetors.

Clutchless transmission, maximum 5 forward speeds, 14"x32" tire, back half, fiberglass hood only, factory glass. For automatics, 150# weight break.

Pump for displacement, anything suspect comes apart. Any compression ratio, any valvetrain, any porting or polishing allowed.

double like!!

SStockDart · 03-28-2015, 07:16 PM

Wow.....lots of good posts. Don Kennedy, I agree, stock and superstock is not broken, except for the "no horsepower" for new cars. Very simply, if NHRA is ever going to allow a new eliminator, it absolutely has to be simple to administer........Newest categories, Top Dragster, Top Sportsman.......vertually no time necessary for NHRA to regulate. Safety check the cars.....top 16 or 32 qualify....must run within ? of qualification time.
I feel strongly about 2 categories of Modified Production.....first category (double AA, BB, etc), multiple carbs (no boosters).......14 inch tire. Second category, (single A, B, etc)....single carb, 9 inch tire...Where I seem to have a difference with some posts is the size of the carb changing with the class......I believe one size carb for the single carb cars....my preference is a 600 CFM....If you want to run A/MP with 500 inches, make it run with 600 CFM....(no real opponent of a 750 carb as long as it is 750 for all single carb cars)... We don't want to make it easy for competitors to run fast, they will have to work hard on the combinations......but we have to make it easy for NHRA tech to administer.

It goes like this.....OK, you want to run single carb Modified Production......easy to make horsepower (relatively speaking) with a 300 cube engine and 600 CFM carb......you want to run A/MP, much harder to make horsepower with a 600 CFM......Your choice.....\

Absolutely needs to run like Comp with CIC......resent the CIC periodically, and start from scratch.

EFI and turbos could be added later, depending of the success of Modified Production. But needs to be easy for NHRA.

Realistic, A tear down for a stocker.....cam lift, bore, stroke, carb measurements, wheel base, overhang, pull a piston with rod for weight and compliance, intake compliance, etc..... this 2 category Modified Production.....pump the engine, fuel check, measure carb, and 5 seconds to check tire size.

Good Luck

david ring · 03-28-2015, 07:16 PM

How are the proposed classes not like the super mod classes in comp? And any time it comes down to no break out and weight to cubic inches, it is going to get very expensive very fast.

Dick Butler · 03-28-2015, 09:50 PM

always impressed that many open minded people realize it might be better to get away from Third Handed HP ratings and easily manipulated AHFS and use Cubic Inchs for a Basic class.
THe econo Modified discussion in earlier posts indicated how to limit costs. No computer for eliminations, any flat top piston, Spec Brodix heads, Spec carb, Lb/cubic inch any SS chassis with any rods, any crank, No external vacuum, no external oil pump. Hole in pan to police. Stock placement of Dist. Spec spring and Cam size. Might even give wt break for regular chassis versus FWD chassis of 50#.
Take off headers to check heads, tech Carb, Check wt, and look in pan.Pump.
Easy tech.

03-27-2015, 05:13 PM	#13
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: New Eliminator proposition Billy, Maybe the fact that a Major cut in price by a sealed (fill in Brand) motor or Basic Mod motor could allow those who are on the verge of being priced out of S or SS to stay with it would count. Maybe making a simple tear down would be worth it to a group of Class Racers. Maybe many people could see "their advantages" allowed in a simpler class car. Still keep the rest of the classes, Still have a dial in for bracket race races but Keep It Simpler...NHRA problems in other Eliminators isn't related to this discussion. SS and Stock have racers, today but the factoring, High $ , Tough tear down and lack of a true entry class might all be solved by one class for MANY racers. Long Term the Factory classes will be Pro Stock anyway just due to Cash required and lack of recognizable cars in Pro.

03-27-2015, 08:12 PM	#15
Don Kennedy VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Portland TN Posts: 1,590 Likes: 3,876 Liked 902 Times in 237 Posts	Re: New Eliminator proposition Stock and Super Stock racing as it is now is not broken. . NHRA will continue to tweak the system . Only a very few racers are complaining the majority are happy with the rules as they are now . no need to change much . __________________ Don Kennedy 7701 SS

03-28-2015, 07:16 PM	#18
SStockDart VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Arizona, Texan forever Posts: 1,176 Likes: 878 Liked 574 Times in 212 Posts	Re: New Eliminator proposition Wow.....lots of good posts. Don Kennedy, I agree, stock and superstock is not broken, except for the "no horsepower" for new cars. Very simply, if NHRA is ever going to allow a new eliminator, it absolutely has to be simple to administer........Newest categories, Top Dragster, Top Sportsman.......vertually no time necessary for NHRA to regulate. Safety check the cars.....top 16 or 32 qualify....must run within ? of qualification time. I feel strongly about 2 categories of Modified Production.....first category (double AA, BB, etc), multiple carbs (no boosters).......14 inch tire. Second category, (single A, B, etc)....single carb, 9 inch tire...Where I seem to have a difference with some posts is the size of the carb changing with the class......I believe one size carb for the single carb cars....my preference is a 600 CFM....If you want to run A/MP with 500 inches, make it run with 600 CFM....(no real opponent of a 750 carb as long as it is 750 for all single carb cars)... We don't want to make it easy for competitors to run fast, they will have to work hard on the combinations......but we have to make it easy for NHRA tech to administer. It goes like this.....OK, you want to run single carb Modified Production......easy to make horsepower (relatively speaking) with a 300 cube engine and 600 CFM carb......you want to run A/MP, much harder to make horsepower with a 600 CFM......Your choice.....\ Absolutely needs to run like Comp with CIC......resent the CIC periodically, and start from scratch. EFI and turbos could be added later, depending of the success of Modified Production. But needs to be easy for NHRA. Realistic, A tear down for a stocker.....cam lift, bore, stroke, carb measurements, wheel base, overhang, pull a piston with rod for weight and compliance, intake compliance, etc..... this 2 category Modified Production.....pump the engine, fuel check, measure carb, and 5 seconds to check tire size. Good Luck __________________ Gary Hansen - SS/FA 4911, B/SA 4911

03-28-2015, 07:16 PM	#19
david ring Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oneonta.,NY Posts: 889 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: New Eliminator proposition How are the proposed classes not like the super mod classes in comp? And any time it comes down to no break out and weight to cubic inches, it is going to get very expensive very fast.

03-28-2015, 09:50 PM	#20
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: New Eliminator proposition always impressed that many open minded people realize it might be better to get away from Third Handed HP ratings and easily manipulated AHFS and use Cubic Inchs for a Basic class. THe econo Modified discussion in earlier posts indicated how to limit costs. No computer for eliminations, any flat top piston, Spec Brodix heads, Spec carb, Lb/cubic inch any SS chassis with any rods, any crank, No external vacuum, no external oil pump. Hole in pan to police. Stock placement of Dist. Spec spring and Cam size. Might even give wt break for regular chassis versus FWD chassis of 50#. Take off headers to check heads, tech Carb, Check wt, and look in pan.Pump. Easy tech.