Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races - Page 7

RON TAYLOR · 11-28-2007, 03:21 PM

When Has Ahfs Ever Fffing Worked You Got 350 Cad Fuel Inj. Rated At 180 Hp In Superstock . Get Rid Of It This A Performance Class . They Got Bracket Racing For Everybody That Can"t Get There Combo To Run Fast.

Evan Smith · 11-28-2007, 03:28 PM

Steve, you make a great point and I agree. There needs to be more reason to go fast in the first place, other than Top or Jr. Stock, or bragging rights. Hopefully combining the EFI cars and the regular classes will help this.

I would not be happy about having to protect my factor every run, but what point is there to having a system at all when it is easily avoidable? Anyone can skirt the system the way it is now.

If you want incentive to go fast then here it is:

I proposed to Len and Mr. Light a system in which points (divisional and/or national) are awarded to the top 16 qualifiers at national and divisional events in Stock and SS. Top qualifier gets 16 points, 16th qualifier gets 1 point and you can do the rest of the math. With that, points should be awarded for national records (come up with a fair point value and a max number of points that can be earned in a season) and also for wins during class eliminations. If you get points for beating someone heads-up during the eliminator, why not award points during Class Eliminations. OK, busy classes offer more opportunity for points, well then build a car for that class.

This would help a go-fast guy gain a Top-10 finish in the divsion rather than it just being based on bracket-racing points totals. If Stock and SS are performance-based classes, then performance should matter. This is a simple way for performance to matter.

Evan

bottombulb · 11-28-2007, 03:39 PM

I have the answer for all of you "performance based racers" (read that bracket racer haters). If you want your performance class back like the "good old days", forget the AHFS or combining classes or changing indexes. Remove the dial-in/breakout format and institute the CIC format like Comp. Just think, all the performance based racing you can stand! Oh sure, you'll have a bunch of people run away with the class for a few years, but nobody escapes the CIC forever. And best of all, you get rid of all those damn bracket "racers". After all, you don't see them running in Comp, do you? Oh wait, come to think of it, you do. Well, maybe it should just be heads up, period. No indexes or factored HP or anything, just like Pro Stock. Thank God there are none of those damn bracket "racers" there either! Oh wait again. Nevermind. I don't have an answer after all. Those damn bracket "racers" just keep finding a way to ruin everything.

Mark Yacavone · 11-28-2007, 04:12 PM

You just can't count runs at divisionals without the the threat of teardown there.
Count ALL runs at National events .
Do it four times a year.
You carb guys better lobby for this or you'll be in the back of the bus for four or five years..... or broke, whatever comes first.

Harry 6674 · 11-28-2007, 04:36 PM

I don't think anyone here hates bracket racers. Some of us don't believe the bracket racing format belongs in S/SS thats all we're saying. Get rid of the shoe polish and playing games at 1000 ft. and the fans will return. Stock and super/stock used to be crowd favorites,I think they still can be. Top Stock is a step in the right direction,no games first to the line wins. Thats racing. I would bet you would see a whole new batch of winners.

Jeff Lee · 11-28-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

Steve, you make a great point and I agree. There needs to be more reason to go fast in the first place, other than Top or Jr. Stock, or bragging rights. Hopefully combining the EFI cars and the regular classes will help this.

I would not be happy about having to protect my factor every run, but what point is there to having a system at all when it is easily avoidable? Anyone can skirt the system the way it is now.

If you want incentive to go fast then here it is:

I proposed to Len and Mr. Light a system in which points (divisional and/or national) are awarded to the top 16 qualifiers at national and divisional events in Stock and SS. Top qualifier gets 16 points, 16th qualifier gets 1 point and you can do the rest of the math. With that, points should be awarded for national records (come up with a fair point value and a max number of points that can be earned in a season) and also for wins during class eliminations. If you get points for beating someone heads-up during the eliminator, why not award points during Class Eliminations. OK, busy classes offer more opportunity for points, well then build a car for that class.

This would help a go-fast guy gain a Top-10 finish in the divsion rather than it just being based on bracket-racing points totals. If Stock and SS are performance-based classes, then performance should matter. This is a simple way for performance to matter.
Evan

Best idea yet! Doesn't address the AHFS issue but I'd support something like this anyday. There should be rewards for all the hard work besides a line in ND and a certificate. I think by the time they combine FI with carbs and maybe even combine trannys you'll see that some will be forced into going fast.
I've also proposed to Len that either 1/8th mile or 1000' increments are used in evaluations along with 100# maximum ballast. That would take care of the racers sandbagging the AHFS. Racers, putting on a show on your brakes will make the class as appealing as the throttle-stop classes!

Jim Cimarolli · 11-28-2007, 05:10 PM

I think that we all need to take a serious look at the safety issue at hand when two racers have to slam on the brakes in a heads up race to keep from going too far under. There are going to be a lot more top end crashes beacause of this problem. It's tough enough to back into a guy in a bracket race looking over your shoulder running at top speed scrubbing the brakes and not have something go wrong. But this heads up situation is a lot more dangerous, one guy waits for the other to give up and then they both slam on the brakes trying to slow down. Look at what has happened to the excitement of Class Eliminations, its all but gone now.
Racers in a heads up situation should not have to slam on the brakes, whats this sport supposed to be about anyway?

Evan Smith · 11-28-2007, 05:39 PM

Thanks Jeff. There are a lot of good racer on here making valid points. Still, the NHRA will never, hard as it might try, make racing 100% fair for the thousands of racers and thousands of possible combinations in Stock or SS, regardless of any AHFS system it might employ. That is reality.

I'm not bragging, buy my car will run past 1.15 under, and the last thing I want is HP, but you have to be realistic. How is the playing field ever going to be equalized when most of us race at only a 2-4 nationals a year? What is the point of having any system if you can demolish the competition at any divisional or open? To say it is not policed at divisionals is a joke. It's not like 15-20 cars are coming apart at every national. For the AHFS system to work you have to count ALL runs, but equalize other areas (such as freak weather conditions and factored tracks) and also offer some incentive for going fast to limit sandbagging.

My points system offers such, with little-to-no consequence for anyone. Many of the top racers have fast cars so this won't be a big deal for them.

Jim, racers hit the brakes hard during normal bracket competition at every race, far more than the few times during heads-up competition. This will always occur as long as there is bracket racing.

Of course we can't turn our backs on bracket-style racing beacuse it allows anyone to have a chance and that is pretty cool. But there should be far more reward for those who want to race in a performance-based class.

Evan

Jim Cimarolli · 11-28-2007, 06:40 PM

Jim, racers hit the brakes hard during normal bracket competition at every race, far more than the few times during heads-up competition. This will always occur as long as there is bracket racing

Evan,

IMO there is a big difference on how a racer hits the brakes in these two situations, I outlined that in my post.
The proposed addition of counting all runs would make this situation of excessive braking even worse.

bottombulb · 11-28-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cimarolli

IMO there is a big difference on how a racer hits the brakes in these two situations

Yeah, bracket racers know how to hit the brakes and heads up racers don't! LOL!

11-28-2007, 03:21 PM	#61
RON TAYLOR Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: LINCOLN ,NE Posts: 14 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races When Has Ahfs Ever Fffing Worked You Got 350 Cad Fuel Inj. Rated At 180 Hp In Superstock . Get Rid Of It This A Performance Class . They Got Bracket Racing For Everybody That Can"t Get There Combo To Run Fast.

11-28-2007, 03:28 PM	#62
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races Steve, you make a great point and I agree. There needs to be more reason to go fast in the first place, other than Top or Jr. Stock, or bragging rights. Hopefully combining the EFI cars and the regular classes will help this. I would not be happy about having to protect my factor every run, but what point is there to having a system at all when it is easily avoidable? Anyone can skirt the system the way it is now. If you want incentive to go fast then here it is: I proposed to Len and Mr. Light a system in which points (divisional and/or national) are awarded to the top 16 qualifiers at national and divisional events in Stock and SS. Top qualifier gets 16 points, 16th qualifier gets 1 point and you can do the rest of the math. With that, points should be awarded for national records (come up with a fair point value and a max number of points that can be earned in a season) and also for wins during class eliminations. If you get points for beating someone heads-up during the eliminator, why not award points during Class Eliminations. OK, busy classes offer more opportunity for points, well then build a car for that class. This would help a go-fast guy gain a Top-10 finish in the divsion rather than it just being based on bracket-racing points totals. If Stock and SS are performance-based classes, then performance should matter. This is a simple way for performance to matter. Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

11-28-2007, 03:39 PM	#63
bottombulb Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hammonton NJ Posts: 28 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races I have the answer for all of you "performance based racers" (read that bracket racer haters). If you want your performance class back like the "good old days", forget the AHFS or combining classes or changing indexes. Remove the dial-in/breakout format and institute the CIC format like Comp. Just think, all the performance based racing you can stand! Oh sure, you'll have a bunch of people run away with the class for a few years, but nobody escapes the CIC forever. And best of all, you get rid of all those damn bracket "racers". After all, you don't see them running in Comp, do you? Oh wait, come to think of it, you do. Well, maybe it should just be heads up, period. No indexes or factored HP or anything, just like Pro Stock. Thank God there are none of those damn bracket "racers" there either! Oh wait again. Nevermind. I don't have an answer after all. Those damn bracket "racers" just keep finding a way to ruin everything.

11-28-2007, 04:12 PM	#64
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,818 Likes: 2,909 Liked 5,126 Times in 1,954 Posts	Re: Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races You just can't count runs at divisionals without the the threat of teardown there. Count ALL runs at National events . Do it four times a year. You carb guys better lobby for this or you'll be in the back of the bus for four or five years..... or broke, whatever comes first. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

11-28-2007, 04:36 PM	#65
Harry 6674 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 589 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races I don't think anyone here hates bracket racers. Some of us don't believe the bracket racing format belongs in S/SS thats all we're saying. Get rid of the shoe polish and playing games at 1000 ft. and the fans will return. Stock and super/stock used to be crowd favorites,I think they still can be. Top Stock is a step in the right direction,no games first to the line wins. Thats racing. I would bet you would see a whole new batch of winners.

11-28-2007, 05:10 PM	#67
Jim Cimarolli Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sulphur Springs Texas Posts: 743 Likes: 146 Liked 166 Times in 46 Posts	Re: Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races I think that we all need to take a serious look at the safety issue at hand when two racers have to slam on the brakes in a heads up race to keep from going too far under. There are going to be a lot more top end crashes beacause of this problem. It's tough enough to back into a guy in a bracket race looking over your shoulder running at top speed scrubbing the brakes and not have something go wrong. But this heads up situation is a lot more dangerous, one guy waits for the other to give up and then they both slam on the brakes trying to slow down. Look at what has happened to the excitement of Class Eliminations, its all but gone now. Racers in a heads up situation should not have to slam on the brakes, whats this sport supposed to be about anyway?

11-28-2007, 05:39 PM	#68
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races Thanks Jeff. There are a lot of good racer on here making valid points. Still, the NHRA will never, hard as it might try, make racing 100% fair for the thousands of racers and thousands of possible combinations in Stock or SS, regardless of any AHFS system it might employ. That is reality. I'm not bragging, buy my car will run past 1.15 under, and the last thing I want is HP, but you have to be realistic. How is the playing field ever going to be equalized when most of us race at only a 2-4 nationals a year? What is the point of having any system if you can demolish the competition at any divisional or open? To say it is not policed at divisionals is a joke. It's not like 15-20 cars are coming apart at every national. For the AHFS system to work you have to count ALL runs, but equalize other areas (such as freak weather conditions and factored tracks) and also offer some incentive for going fast to limit sandbagging. My points system offers such, with little-to-no consequence for anyone. Many of the top racers have fast cars so this won't be a big deal for them. Jim, racers hit the brakes hard during normal bracket competition at every race, far more than the few times during heads-up competition. This will always occur as long as there is bracket racing. Of course we can't turn our backs on bracket-style racing beacuse it allows anyone to have a chance and that is pretty cool. But there should be far more reward for those who want to race in a performance-based class. Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK Last edited by Evan Smith; 11-28-2007 at 05:50 PM.

11-28-2007, 06:40 PM	#69
Jim Cimarolli Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sulphur Springs Texas Posts: 743 Likes: 146 Liked 166 Times in 46 Posts	Re: Word is 1.15 under for AHFS at Opens and Divisional races Jim, racers hit the brakes hard during normal bracket competition at every race, far more than the few times during heads-up competition. This will always occur as long as there is bracket racing Evan, IMO there is a big difference on how a racer hits the brakes in these two situations, I outlined that in my post. The proposed addition of counting all runs would make this situation of excessive braking even worse.