And the penalties are??? - Page 5

Mike Pearson · 03-18-2021, 10:49 AM

[QUOTE=Cbrinson47;636898]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

Years back I won class at the gators and went through tear down. One of my intake valves measured .001 under the low limit. The valve was badly tuliped. I was tossed for the event and had to show up at the next event with the head off and have the valve size checked before I could race. I was also placed on 6 mos. tech probation. That infraction was considered minor. FYI I put new valves in the heads for the next race and the car picked up a tenth.

Did you know that the factory tolerance on a micrometer, Dial indicator, or dial caliper is plus or minus .001. I know this because I used to calibrate precision tools for the Dept. of the Navy. They should be checked with "GAGE BLOCKS" a least once a year. Tools being treated to rough treatment as in running all over the U.S. should be certified at least several times a year. Do you really think most tools being used by the NHRA tech. dept. have been certified?

Wesley was the tech guy during that tear down. When he found the valve just under the low limit he told me if I could find another caliper that measured the valve one thousanth bigger he would pass it. We checked the valve with 3 different calipers and they all measured the same. After I got home and fixed the heads I got to thinking I should have heated the valve to the temperature that it gets to when the engine is running and it might have grown .001 and passed.

Kevin Panzino · 03-18-2021, 11:10 AM

[QUOTE=Mike Pearson;636911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cbrinson47

Wesley was the tech guy during that tear down. When he found the valve just under the low limit he told me if I could find another caliper that measured the valve one thousanth bigger he would pass it. We checked the valve with 3 different calipers and they all measured the same. After I got home and fixed the heads I got to thinking I should have heated the valve to the temperature that it gets to when the engine is running and it might have grown .001 and passed.

It im not mistaken the exact same thing cost Lincoln Morehead the championship.

Cbrinson47 · 03-18-2021, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Not only that, but if one of them is dropped it needs to be set aside and sent in to be checked / calibrated.

Stan

That is for sure !

Cbrinson47 · 03-18-2021, 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=Mike Pearson;636911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cbrinson47

Wesley was the tech guy during that tear down. When he found the valve just under the low limit he told me if I could find another caliper that measured the valve one thousanth bigger he would pass it. We checked the valve with 3 different calipers and they all measured the same. After I got home and fixed the heads I got to thinking I should have heated the valve to the temperature that it gets to when the engine is running and it might have grown .001 and passed.

LOL

SS/GSI · 03-18-2021, 02:09 PM

[QUOTE=Kevin Panzino;636912]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

It im not mistaken the exact same thing cost Lincoln Morehead the championship.

Kevin, you are correct. It did cost Lincoln the WC in 2002 if I am not mistaken. The incident occurred at the US Nationals at Indy, and yes it was a valve that got tuliped by 1 thou.

ALMACK · 03-18-2021, 02:13 PM

[QUOTE=Mike Pearson;636911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cbrinson47

Wesley was the tech guy during that tear down. When he found the valve just under the low limit he told me if I could find another caliper that measured the valve one thousanth bigger he would pass it. We checked the valve with 3 different calipers and they all measured the same. After I got home and fixed the heads I got to thinking I should have heated the valve to the temperature that it gets to when the engine is running and it might have grown .001 and passed.

That's why I carry my own calipers with me in the trailer.
Plus some brake cleaner to clean the exhaust valves ( carbon)

SS/GSI · 03-18-2021, 02:28 PM

I believe the the last decade of penalties handed out have not been harsh enough. The penalties must be directly related to future participation of a competitor and not monetary. We are not pros, we do not get paid to show up; therefore imposing a monetary fine on a sportsman competitor is absurd. The general population of sportsman competitors do this as a hobby and for fun. An extended period off from competition will definitely be more of a deterrent from cheating than getting a single race suspension and/or fine. All Bryan was trying to explain is that the NHRA's penalty spectrum has shrunk down to a "one size fits all" penalty for every infraction. You cannot actually believe that a competitor who inaccurately fills in their tech card, not resulting in any sort of competitive advantage can be compared to or given the same penalty as an illegal driveline component? NHRA needs to sit down, draw out all the infractions/penalties in black & white and stick to it. There will always be people over penalized and under penalized; however, if everyone involved knows they are all being treated equally, that is the end result, I believe, most of us would be willing to accept.

Larry Hill · 03-18-2021, 04:16 PM

Any bets on Gary paying the fine. I don’t think so. NHRA killed that cash cow. Give him a little time off and NHRA has a chance he might return.

Adger Smith · 03-19-2021, 03:40 AM

Larry, I think You are right.
These fines to sportsmen are not the same as the fines to professionals.
The Pro's have it covered with sponsors or in their budget.
The Mom and Pop racer is already hitting the retirement 401K hard just to get to the track.
The sportsman fine could be taking food off the table or the kids college fund.
NHRA needs to rethink that.
There is a better way for the NHRA police to enforce the rules.
BTW I'm like Billy. If I ever got a monetary fine I would pack it in.
In my last retirement period (since 2010) from NHRA I have found a lot of things to do that are as satisfying and as personally challenging as the races.
I've spent a lot of time flying my planes and working on them.
I think it is actually quite a bit cheaper than what I spent racing & the family enjoys it more.

1347 · 03-19-2021, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

Any bets on Gary paying the fine. I don’t think so. NHRA killed that cash cow. Give him a little time off and NHRA has a chance he might return.

Isn't there an appeal process? And if so, who listens ans rules on the appeal?

03-18-2021, 02:28 PM	#47
SS/GSI Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 292 Likes: 81 Liked 759 Times in 109 Posts	Re: And the penalties are??? I believe the the last decade of penalties handed out have not been harsh enough. The penalties must be directly related to future participation of a competitor and not monetary. We are not pros, we do not get paid to show up; therefore imposing a monetary fine on a sportsman competitor is absurd. The general population of sportsman competitors do this as a hobby and for fun. An extended period off from competition will definitely be more of a deterrent from cheating than getting a single race suspension and/or fine. All Bryan was trying to explain is that the NHRA's penalty spectrum has shrunk down to a "one size fits all" penalty for every infraction. You cannot actually believe that a competitor who inaccurately fills in their tech card, not resulting in any sort of competitive advantage can be compared to or given the same penalty as an illegal driveline component? NHRA needs to sit down, draw out all the infractions/penalties in black & white and stick to it. There will always be people over penalized and under penalized; however, if everyone involved knows they are all being treated equally, that is the end result, I believe, most of us would be willing to accept. __________________ Kevin Gaffney 1123 SS/GA

03-18-2021, 04:16 PM	#48
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,643 Likes: 1,941 Liked 10,729 Times in 2,233 Posts	Re: And the penalties are??? Any bets on Gary paying the fine. I don’t think so. NHRA killed that cash cow. Give him a little time off and NHRA has a chance he might return. __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817 Last edited by Larry Hill; 03-18-2021 at 04:19 PM.

03-19-2021, 03:40 AM	#49
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: And the penalties are??? Larry, I think You are right. These fines to sportsmen are not the same as the fines to professionals. The Pro's have it covered with sponsors or in their budget. The Mom and Pop racer is already hitting the retirement 401K hard just to get to the track. The sportsman fine could be taking food off the table or the kids college fund. NHRA needs to rethink that. There is a better way for the NHRA police to enforce the rules. BTW I'm like Billy. If I ever got a monetary fine I would pack it in. In my last retirement period (since 2010) from NHRA I have found a lot of things to do that are as satisfying and as personally challenging as the races. I've spent a lot of time flying my planes and working on them. I think it is actually quite a bit cheaper than what I spent racing & the family enjoys it more. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS) Last edited by Adger Smith; 03-19-2021 at 03:41 AM. Reason: sp