Factory experimental

[bill dedman]

Rory said, "I think that any forced induction Stocker should be limited to the factory boost pressure"...

Jeff Lee said, "I believe all pressurized engines should be held to OEM specifications. "
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Where were you guys about 6 months ago, when I was beating the drum for tell-tale boost gauges on all forced induction cars because of their inordinate showing as #1 qualifiers at National events??? In the last four years, (had stats for 2004-2007 at the time) about two percent of the cars (turbo cars) had nailed down something like fifteen-percent of the #1 qualifying slots... a statistical anomaly that screams for attention.

Now that the issue is a different one, but the cause of the problem is the same, you come out with this.

Since horsepower at the flywheel is almost certainly boost-dependent, OF COURSE it needs to be monitored to factory specs, one way or another. Tell-tale boost gauges is one effective way to do it.

I still think these "new" factory race cars belong in S/S.... especially, the ones with less than 7.5 lbs/hp.

My 2-cents...

[Fred Holdorf]

Rory, Yes there were supercharged Ford's and Studebaker's in "Stock" many years ago. Larry Walker and myself at one time had to make a full pass, with a tech inspector riding along monitoring his own calibrated boost pressure gauge. We, (1957 Ford) were allowed 6# of boost @ 4800 RPM's, plus 1# of boost for every 1000 RPM's over 4800 RPM's we turned the engine. I understand Gordon Williams had to do the same with his Studebaker also. Has anything like that been done lately, or are there any boost specs on these new cars at all. Any body know?

Fred Holdorf

[GUMP]

How much HP does a 426 Hemi or 427 Chevy stocker motor make?

[Jared Jordan]

Originally Posted by GUMP

How much HP does a 426 Hemi or 427 Chevy stocker motor make?

A good Street Hemi should make somewhere in the neighborhood of 650 HP. Don't know about the 427's.

[s10stocker]

Where were you guys about 6 months ago, when I was beating the drum for tell-tale boost gauges on all forced induction cars because of their inordinate showing as #1 qualifiers at National events??? In the last four years, (had stats for 2004-2007 at the time) about two percent of the cars (turbo cars) had nailed down something like fifteen-percent of the #1 qualifying slots... a statistical anomaly that screams for attention.

Now that the issue is a different one, but the cause of the problem is the same, you come out with this.

Since horsepower at the flywheel is almost certainly boost-dependent, OF COURSE it needs to be monitored to factory specs, one way or another. Tell-tale boost gauges is one effective way to do it.

I still think these "new" factory race cars belong in S/S.... especially, the ones with less than 7.5 lbs/hp.



How about when a turbo car at a alt. track sets a record 1.58 under but wait, it can't get hit because it's a alt track. Sorry almost a year later that still bothers me.

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Rory said, "I think that any forced induction Stocker should be limited to the factory boost pressure"...

Jeff Lee said, "I believe all pressurized engines should be held to OEM specifications. "
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Where were you guys about 6 months ago, when I was beating the drum for tell-tale boost gauges on all forced induction cars because of their inordinate showing as #1 qualifiers at National events??? In the last four years, (had stats for 2004-2007 at the time) about two percent of the cars (turbo cars) had nailed down something like fifteen-percent of the #1 qualifying slots... a statistical anomaly that screams for attention.

Now that the issue is a different one, but the cause of the problem is the same, you come out with this.

Since horsepower at the flywheel is almost certainly boost-dependent, OF COURSE it needs to be monitored to factory specs, one way or another. Tell-tale boost gauges is one effective way to do it.

I still think these "new" factory race cars belong in S/S.... especially, the ones with less than 7.5 lbs/hp.

My 2-cents...

I've made mention of this issue many times over the years. It usually falls on deaf ears or the FWD brigade jumps in and then it turns into debate over what the OEM standard is (or isn't) and how boost somehow equals nothing more than blueprinting a non-pressurized engine.
The SCCA stopped the tide of MOPAR FWD cars dominating the races decades ago. They gave turbo racers pre-set, sealed & locked waste gates that were installed prior to the race ahead of the carb or injection system. I'm not sure if the waste gate was set to an OEM or SCCA standard but it took care of the issue.

[Rory McNeil]

Bill, I`ve always felt that the forced induction car should be limited to factory boost levels. Like Jeff said (and he used to run a Turbo FWD Stocker), whenever this subject was brought up in the past, it usually ended up with the Turbo FWD crying "No Fair", because turbo`s are inconsistent, or FWD cars don`t have many gear ratios to choose from, or how FWD cars are tricky to hook up, but then they brag about taking a bone stock turbo FWD car and running 1 1/2 seconds under for virtually no expense.Personally, the sealed pre set wastegate on a turbo or blowoff valve on a supercharged engine only seems fair.

Fred, I have heard the stories about NHRA Tech officials riding along with the blown 312 Fords way back when. By the way, Larry Walkers old 57 blown 312 car is still around. It`s been up here in Western Canada since the early 70`s, and is scheduled to come back out this year, after being in storage since about 1975.
One thing that I do find odd about the new Cobra Jet is that according to Georges post, it appears that NHRA knocked 75 HP from the 500 HP rating. That could be interesting! But hasn`t NHRA often "adjusted" factory HP ratings, both up & down? Like I said before, Pomona should be interesting! Seeing Jim Waldo back in a Ford is great, even if it is an automatic (for now!?)

[bill dedman]

Rory said, "Personally, the sealed pre-set wastegate on a turbo or blowoff valve on a supercharged engine only seems fair."

In the lengthy discussion I had with owners'-drivers of turbo Stockers, I learned a few things. I learned, for instance, that with certain LEGAL engine modifications (such as a legal cam swap, the installation of headers to better supply the turbo with exhaust gas, and a superior spark advance curve, etc.,) BOOST can increase well beyond factory levels.

Now, I'm not talking out both sides of my mouth here, but we do need to be fair about this. If a turbo car has the option of changing cams, headers, etc, (like a normally-aspirated car,) and in the process, it causes the boost level to go up due to more air passing through the engine, how would it be fair to deny them that additional boost, if they came by it the same way a normally-aspirated car comes by the additional horsepower it accrues with the addition of headers, a better cam. etc.????

It's not going to be easy to answer that... But....what's good for the goose, etc...

Insofar as requiring "a sealed pre-set wastegate on a turbo or blowoff valve on a supercharged engine," IF something like that were ever to be done, wouldn't a tell-tale boost gauge to be read by the tech who does the fuel check and weighs the car after every run be a lot simpler and cheaper? He would have in his possession, a boost specification provided by the NHRA tech dept. that would represent the allowable psi for that particular engine, and when the car comes in for its fuel check and to be weighed, the tech would simply look at his chart for the car, and if the tell-tale gauge needle is stuck at a number beyond the chart spec, then that car cannot compete any more at that race. Just like if the fuel won't check, or the car's too light...

A tell-tale boost gauge is a lot cheaper and easier to install than a dedicated wastegate or blowoff valve, don't you think? Only needs one small piece of tubing...

Bill

[Chuck Beach]

Now this post is funny ... just because it is not your brand some of you complain and whine. Let's talk about cars that came out under rated ... the 305 hp LT1 Firebird and Camaro was rated at 275 ... what a joke, you could run a second under at that HP before you did anything to the motor. Then there was the LS1 which was rated at 335 but NHRA at 305. Another joke, I know a guy that just put a cam, headers, a gear and a set of tires on that combo and went 1.10 under at Indy. Now if this was a new Camaro you guys would think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread ... Give these cars a chance before you bash them, maybe you guys should build one ...

[Bruce Noland]

Probably the best way for us to deal with the new After Market Super Stock cars running in Stock is to simply take up a collection and make nhra a better offer. So, all we have to do is find out how much it cost Ford and Chrysler to place these cars in Stock. Then we just have to raise more money and go pay the nhra. I'm sure it really is just that simple.

Well, maybe this would be a short term fix because Ford and Chrysler would then come back with a better offer and we would lose all our money.

And I wonder about the racers who are going to race these cars in Stock. I wonder what they are thinking. Do they see this as a fair deal for the Stock Category? Now they have these great big cannons to race against a bunch of racers with pistols. This really is a new day for Stock. This is not part of a cycle. It is a major reset.