Factory experimental

[Bruce Noland]

Jack,
No one would ever think that you were off yours meds.

I'm glad Ford wants to come back into Class racing but many of us think the New Supercharged Cobra Jets have been misclassified. We have little or no faith in nhra to correct this situation when they are the ones who admitted the car into Stock in the first place. This car is a game changer, there is no way that it can be compared to any other car that has been allowed to run in Stock. It will take years for the ahfs to catch up to this one and in that time it will have a viral effect on the upper classes; approximately 300 cars. nhra is increasing quotas to help with their bottom line. If what I'm told is true, this new CJ will cause many class racers to move out of drag racing.

This is not one of those deals where we have to wait'n see. These new CJs belong in a Factory Experimental class where they can be vetted for several seasons and then moved down if they are duds; which, by the way, they are not. These cars can run mid 9.50s at over 143 mph. What are we going to do with them? And why does Ford have such a great desire to beat up on a bunch of old cars with their Rocket? Ford should pick on somebody their own size, like GM and Chrsyler in Factory Experimental.

Some of these cars have some tech problems already and it will be interesting to see whether Ford and nhra make them go away.

[Jack Matyas]

Bruce -- There's not a racer out there who should feel more anti-NHRA than me but yet I still have faith -- let them do their jobs !
By NHRA increasing quotas it not only lines the pockets but it gives other racers a chance to compete who normally wouldn't .I certainly don't see the new CJ as a game changer -- they still have to hook 'em and dial --same as you.
You must be privvy to some "top secret info" - have you seen any time slips showing one or more of these cars going 9.50@143 ?
As for tech problems I'm not aware of anything specific -- are you ? Care to share ....
We are now more than 240 posts into this and no one has seen a CJ go down the track -- shouldn't we at least wait until then before we string 'em up (or should I say lasso 'em ) .
Seems you would like to see these boys race anywhere you're not -- looks like an old fashioned gunfight to me -- bring your best stuff . 2009 could turn out to be Stock racing's best year ever............

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Jack,
If what I'm told is true, this new CJ will cause many class racers to move out of drag racing.

Some of these cars have some tech problems already and it will be interesting to see whether Ford and nhra make them go away.

Yes they have yet to go down the track in NHRA-style,but the drivers know the game this time..they wont go out and make faster runs than needed is my guess..tests at other tracks may show someting.....FORD has probably "invested" in this ..and NHRA has made sure they will have a good chance to come out on top in thier first outing..I have to think a little like Bruce that many upper class racers that not really are Bracket racers but more "Classracers" will have enough if these cars are faster right off the bat...with pontential to dominate for years to come by by "racing smart" and adding the knowledge you get when racing them..I know i would...your hard work over decades could be wiped out in 9.5 seconds at Pomona..The LT1 is 66 hp more than when it came along..and still keep getting horsepower...this one seem to have even more in the bag!
It may show at Pomona..or not..but given the engine specs..well the few ones there are..these will fly if thats what they decide to do!!

[Jack Matyas]

bsa633 -- Your post is full of maybe's -- look at some of the words that you've used.......have yet to ...but ...my guess............may show......probably.....if these cars.......with potential.........seem to ....may show......or not........if thats what they decide ---------please -- like they said years ago on TV---"Just the Facts" .
By the way -- do you have any knowledge of NHRA making sure they (Ford) succeed with this project?

PS-- Good thing its a slow day here at work .

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

bsa633 -- Your post is full of maybe's -- look at some of the words that you've used.......have yet to ...but ...my guess............may show......probably.....if these cars.......with potential.........seem to ....may show......or not........if thats what they decide ---------please -- like they said years ago on TV---"Just the Facts" .
By the way -- do you have any knowledge of NHRA making sure they (Ford) succeed with this project?

PS-- Good thing its a slow day here at work .

Yeah..well..there are not alot of facts...a little more "maybe's"...10.2's at Fontana..a track that is .2 slow..not hooking up at all..and only a few know in what trim ."Factory"?..I like new cars coming in..But with cars like these i really think they need to be in thier own class until we know more..the F.I and carb cars are close these days...they were not in the past when you could run way under the index with one of those LT1's even without taking the engine apart more than to do a Cam change and computer works.. These C.J's are way more "grey area" than those when it comes to figure this out..and the system will take way too long time to get it right with racers now knowing how to work it!
With all this said..Qudos to Ford!!

p.s. Does this open for Hemi Darts and Barracudas in Stock down the road?

[Bruce Noland]

Jack,

I have to say that you are one of the most pro nhra racers I have met. Sure you got beat up a little at Pomona and I'm sorry that happened but I personally don't believe it has changed your point of view.

Yes, I have spoken to racers who know a lot about these cars and who have seen them go down the track. I'm not afraid to come out here and post for them if I think they are right. And what if you are wrong? What happens when they take the wraps off these cars and show their real performance to you? What will you say then? Oh well, shucky darn, those cars are rael fast. By then it will be too darn late and it will take nhra years to catch up to them. And what is so darn bad about them running in a Factory Experimental class? Do you have a particular reason for not liking Factory Experimental or are you being nhra stuborn?

[Bruce Noland]

Jack,
Nobody needs you dissect the way they post. The man has an open mind and can see the potential for a train wreck while you have your eyes closed.

[junior barns]

I have to agree with Bruce. I have only been going to a couple of races a year recently so I have'nt been worried about how fast I needed to go. My plans were to step up my program and get back into the lions den with the upper class guys (AA, A/SA ) and even the top stock class. Now; I believe I will save my money and watch to see what happens with these cars. Separate class is the only fair thing to do until these cars have shown what their true potential is!

I dont like bringing a knife to a gun fight!

ps I still like the cars and want to see them run!

[bill dedman]

It looks to me like the ONLY problem with this whole MESS is: "Are these engines correctly "factored" by NHRA?", so that there's not another debacle that takes YEARS for the AHFS to resolve, like it did with the LS-1's.

That was an inexcusable, totally preventable, (and deliberate, I think), faux pas on NHRA's part, and could (and probably will) happen again with these Cobra Jets. It's the one thing that NHRA can "do" for these manufacturers when they (NHRA) want to give them a pat on the back. Unfortunately, it invariably comes at great expense to the rank-and-file....

Having said that, and with that scenario fresh in mind, I don't understand why anyone would think it necessary to create a new class ("F/X") for these cars when they will fit so very well in existing Super Stock classes.

That's what they did in '68 with the then-new Cobra Jets, when they won there... Only the 'cammers were put into F/X (oh, and Bil Hoeffer's Weber-carbed 289.)

I think that the only real problem that these cars are going to create will come about if they're severely under-factored, (DUH....) but of course, that would also be a problem if they were put into Super Stock, too. But, the type of performances that Bruce has alleged they can produce wouldn't be so overtly out-of-line in Super Stock, as they are almost guaranteed to be in Stock.

If they are correctly "factored" (and I have my doubts), then they should be fine in Stock; if not, make them Super Stockers; there are lots of cars in that Eliminator that will not be intimidated by the blowers and 4-valve technology they possess. They are, in fact, small motors, after all... just GOOD ones!

The problem is, of course, getting it right the first time... you don't want to have to move a car out of one Eliminator, into another, after it's originally been classified. That would be unprecented, and undoubtedly wouldn't happen. The Cobra Jets (and their competitiors) are going to have to live with wherever they are put, initially, it would seem. Get it right, NHRA!

I'm delighted to see both them and the Dodges in the fray. I think it's a wonderful opportunity to give Sportsman racing some badly needed media exposure; I just hope it doesn't come at the expense of long-established racers' programs that have been many years and many dollars in the making.

We'll know a lot more in about two week....

Thanks for listening.

[Jack Matyas]

Bruce -- First of all I hope you don't think this is a personal attack on you . Second -- what if I'm wrong -- no shucks about it -- it always catches up -- its never too late to fix a problem .
As for the Factory Experimental class -- I'm sure you understand that has no chance whatsoever in becoming a class . No , I'm not being NHRA stubborn -- just realistic .

As for disecting bsa633's post my point was and still is that we should stick to real facts --not maybe's .And I surely believe he is entitled to his opinion -- whatever that may be .